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Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mountains

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Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mountains

Unread postby Tim McCormack » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:08 pm

As some of you might remember we lost access to Lows Lake, one of the biggest lakes in the Adirondack Park of New York State, a few years ago due to the efforts of the "paddlers" to keep us from (quote) "destroying their wilderness experience". Some of us fought pretty hard, but we got nothing more than a last minute, lousy letter from the SPA in our support ( which is one of the reasons I no longer belong) so, we lost.


The Adirondack Park Agency (APA) is now considering making more changes to the Master Plan for the park and it's an opportunity for us to voice our interest in keeping, and expanding, our access to the lakes in the Park. Please give us a little help in showing that there are some of us who want to visit the beautiful lakes in the Park on an equal basis with all the other "special interest" groups. Send a short note to
SLMP_Comments@apa.ny.gov,


The written comments must be in by this Friday, December 5th so DO IT NOW WHILE YOU'RE THINKING OF IT!!!!!!. Please send me a copy of your note so I can keep it for future reference at one of their hearings. ceeplane@aol.com I've attached mine.


It doesn't have to be long or elaborate, but input is crucial. We need a note from every one of us to go to the APA at SLMP_Comments@apa.ny.gov



Here's the link to the APA website:

http://www.apa.ny.gov/





And here's the press release by the APA:

http://www.apa.ny.gov/Press/pressreleas ... easeID=510










December 1, 2014

To: Deputy Director, Planning Kathy Regan

Re: APSLMP changes


As I'm sure you know, seaplane pilots and passengers have been greatly restricted in the Adirondack Park over the years, with the most recent issue being exclusion from Lows Lake. Without reopening the wounds from that discriminatory decision, suffice it to say that even the promise of an "alternate" to Lows Lake for seaplanes has never materialized.

I urge you to be considerate of us who enjoy the great Adirondacks from a seaplane and to find ways to keep the lakes available to us that are already non-restricted, and to find new ones that can be added to the list.


Tim McCormack
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Marcy, NY 13403
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby RKittine » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:07 am

Tim, Thanks for turning us on to this. Here is what I just sent. Bob



December 2nd, 2014

To: Deputy Director, Planning Kathy Regan

Re: APSLMP changes

Dear Ms. Regan;

As a seaplane pilot living in "Down State" New York, it has been increasingly difficult to find bodies of water where I can enjoy seaplane operations. For that reason, I have over the years, traveled more than 200 miles to have access to lakes and rivers where I could enjoy both seaplane flying and the great outdoors. As I'm sure you know, seaplane pilots and passengers have been greatly restricted in the Adirondack Park over the years as well in sections of the Hudson River where the river co-exists with the New York Canal System.

As the new Master Plan emerges, I urge you to be considerate of us who enjoy the great Adirondacks from a seaplane and to find ways to keep the lakes available to us that are already non-restricted, and to find new ones that can be added to the list.

Robert P. Kittine, Jr.
P.O. Box 1408
Sag Harbor, New York 11963
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby Tim McCormack » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:20 am

Thanks, Bob. I've gotten a couple of others already also. Every little bit helps. If we stay silent when we have an opportunity to speak we have no right to complain.

Apathy kills!
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby cubdriver2 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:57 am

Bob you should post this over on the SPA site

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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby jjbaker » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:03 pm

Done.

Comment _ APSLMP _ Seaplaneforum.pdf
(46.75 KiB) Downloaded 221 times
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby jjbaker » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:55 am

Carl Miller has fortunately posted this on the SPA forum.

I did take the liberty to forward this to three SPA officials, Walter Windus, Steve McCaughey & Bruce Hinds, together with a request to put something on letterhead from the SPA. Here is the response from Bruce Hinds which went t 9 others, in addition to Tim and me:

Holly cow,

There’s a lot to review on the APA website to try and come up with a reasonable statement in the next couple of days that could have some kind of effect. Does anyone have a brief overview???? Why haven’t we heard from our Field Directors on this?

Where are the members? Perhaps they read in our magazine that there is the NY Seaplane Pilots, or was it NE Seaplane Pilots Association that nobody can find information on and assume that they are taking care of things.

How can we keep this from becoming another Lows Lake issue if we don’t have some advance notice and local feet on the ground? Would someone please answer that for me?

Bruce


God knows, maybe we'll get a few more letters and if we're nice and eat all our cookies, Santa will bring some SPA action on the matter...
Posted here for educational purposes and to motivate others to keep asking for help.

A late alarm in a staple full of sleeping sheep spells "easy dinner" for even the three-legged wolf. We lost Lows Lake the same way.

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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby CFII » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:17 am

Sent a quick one in:


To: Kathy Regan

Please keep all current waters open and add new bodies of water for aircraft operators, who are among the most environmentally responsible but lowest in impact and fewest in numbers of public waters users. This is well documented in history with the FAA and NTSB.

Thank you for your consideration,




Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby jjbaker » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:17 am

Thanks for writing, CFII!

Greetings,
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby KlausNW » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:21 pm

Tried to keep it short and to the point.

December 3, 2014

To: Deputy Director, Planning Kathy Regan

I'm writing to request equal access to the Adirondack Park for all citizens. Many of the contributors to the park system do not have the physical ability to enjoy the natural preservation without a motorized vehicle. Seaplanes are commonly used to give the physically challenged the opportunity to experience our wilderness preserves without cutting trees and landscaping for roads. Aircraft are very low impact to the environment and allow a visitor to leave the smallest environmental footprint.

Thank You for serving the public's interest,
Klaus Marx - Piper Pacer Pilot
Juneau, AK & Wenatchee, WA . . . . . . Click on Link Bar to view the 'non-profit' group.
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby TriPacer » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:40 pm

Sent...

Dear Ms. Regan,

My name is Brian White and I am a seaplane pilot in the state of Minnesota. You may question why one single pilot from out of state would write to support your efforts to find common ground with involved stakeholders around the waterways of Adirondack Park. I write because I believe it is important to ensure fair usage and regulation for all users of public waterways, and want to assist in any way I can to prevent the passage of regulations and statues that set precedent for other municipalities to limit fair use in the future.

Outright bans of seaplane operations on waterways are often due to unfounded concerns about environmental impacts, misinformation, and intolerance. The seaplane industry, as I have experienced it, promotes the protection of nature and the proper treatment of our resources. I would like to direct your attention to the attached PDF that serves as a compilation of data and observations describing the negligible effect of seaplanes on the lakes from which they operate. The data contained in this compilation involves studies by organizations ranging from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to the U.S. Coast Guard to the U.S. National Park and Conservation Association.

In addition to these limited effects on waterways, it is worth noting that seaplane operations often involve search and rescue, firefighting, and tourism. The economic and social benefits of continued seaplane operations on waterways far outweigh any perceived environmental drawbacks.

In summary, I’d like to again thank you for ensuring fair and equal access for seaplanes to the Adirondack waterwa and would like you to consider and file my comments as a letter of support for your efforts.

Sincerely,

Brian R. White
New Brighton, MN
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby Tim McCormack » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:11 pm

So far, so good. We've gotten nearly 20 letters sent already that I know of. I'm sure the APA will be surprised at the interest we've shown. Keep 'em coming!!

Thank you to all!
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby cubdriver2 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:21 pm

Got this emailed to me today. I invited Russ to take a look over here

Glenn

Dear Paul,

Good afternoon NY RAF members and neighbors,

I have just been alerted to an issue that has been kept pretty much under the radar here, which is a review of land classification under the Adirondack Park State Land Master Plan. There was a press release sent out in October (http://www.apa.ny.gov/Press/pressreleas ... easeID=510), but apparently very quietly. It only hit the seaplane lists yesterday. At present there is just today and tomorrow to respond to this stage of the process. The recent trend has been to restrict more and more waterways to “no motors” which lumps us in unfairly with boats, jet skis and ATVs. We need to differentiate ourselves from intrusive motorized access if we are to maintain access to these lakes. The results of this planning process could impact seaplane access for the foreseeable future. If any of you have a few minutes to submit a comment, it would be a big help. Comments need to be in your own words as “form letter” comments are all put together and counted as one.

Thoughts to consider:
•While there are only a few airfields in the Adirondack Park, there are many lakes - some of which are open to seaplanes
•Seaplanes are a large part of the history of the Adirondacks - providing access since early in the history of aviation, including such as: •camping
•fishing
•hunting
•fire fighting
•search and rescue
•surveying
•water quality analysis

•They have been the “way to get there” and continue to be the one that leaves the smallest footprint.
•Seaplanes have a very shallow draft and leave nothing but ripples on the water when they land and take off
•Seaplanes need no roads, trails or infrastructure to support their use
•Seaplanes provide the least intrusive access to the backcountry experience for many of our colleagues with disabilities

Your comments should go to:

Deputy Director, Planning Kathy Regan

PO Box 99

Ray Brook, NY 12977

Or via email SLMP_Comments@apa.ny.gov. At this point email will be the only way to get them there in time.

Further information on the Park and the Park Agency is available at http://www.apa.ny.gov .

Thank you very much for your support in this issue and continued support of the RAF.

Russ
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby jjbaker » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:20 pm

That is some impressive alert to RAF members. Including bullet points and all.
Thanks for sharing it and please forward my (better our) thanks and regards to Russ, Glenn.

We essentially need to be up their bum the second someone in that office tries to find out how to spell seaplane or aircraft.
Anything short of close observation and constant searching for new tricks to clump us out of the Adirondacks will yield disaster.

Its sneaky stuff and we can't be sleeping.
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby Tim McCormack » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:09 pm

I submit for your perusal two vastly different approaches to the request by the Adirondack Park Agency (APA) for input regarding possible changes to the Master Plan for the Adirondack Park. You be the judge.

As Fox News says "we'll report....you decide."


This one from Steve McCaughey at SPA:

Jason and all concerned,

We have some SPA members that are very close to the APA, I have asked for there opinions on the situation and to investigate the possible threat to seaplane access from those that will be in attendance. The clock is ticking, but before we make the situation worse and potentially bring seaplanes into the mix when they were not intended to be a topic we need to more info from those close to the APA.

I am in meetings through early afternoon, but I will advise and go into action based on my feedback from them. Again, there is a concern that if seaplanes were not a topic of discussion and they could become one and we could actually do more harm than good to our long term goals of access.

Thank You all for your concern and desire to go into action. I am very concerned, and do not want to leave opportunities for change in the region to be unrealized, at the same time as a situation manager, I am also concerned that with the wrong response at the wrong time we could cause further erosion of seaplane access. I am fully committed to working to doing everything we can in the region, and we have some great community supporters that we are working with, but we have to play our cards carefully to create our ultimate long term goals of access.

Thanks to you all - we will continue to work forward on this with and update you with the best information we can get from those close to the APA as soon as we have it. I have had increasing corporation and productive conversations with decision makers and others including a supporter within the Wall Street Journal in New York this year, and I want to keep things going in the right direction.

Steve


And this one from Russ Holland at Recreational Aviation Foundation (RAF):


Dear Tim,
Good afternoon NY RAF members and neighbors,
I have just been alerted to an issue that has been kept pretty much under the radar here, which is a review of land classification under the Adirondack Park State Land Master Plan. There was a press release sent out in October (http://www.apa.ny.gov/Press/pressreleas ... easeID=510), but apparently very quietly. It only hit the seaplane lists yesterday. At present there is just today and tomorrow to respond to this stage of the process. The recent trend has been to restrict more and more waterways to “no motors” which lumps us in unfairly with boats, jet skis and ATVs. We need to differentiate ourselves from intrusive motorized access if we are to maintain access to these lakes. The results of this planning process could impact seaplane access for the foreseeable future. If any of you have a few minutes to submit a comment, it would be a big help. Comments need to be in your own words as “form letter” comments are all put together and counted as one.
Thoughts to consider:
• While there are only a few airfields in the Adirondack Park, there are many lakes - some of which are open to seaplanes
• Seaplanes are a large part of the history of the Adirondacks - providing access since early in the history of aviation, including such as:
o camping
o fishing
o hunting
o fire fighting
o search and rescue
o surveying
o water quality analysis
• They have been the “way to get there” and continue to be the one that leaves the smallest footprint.
• Seaplanes have a very shallow draft and leave nothing but ripples on the water when they land and take off
• Seaplanes need no roads, trails or infrastructure to support their use
• Seaplanes provide the least intrusive access to the backcountry experience for many of our colleagues with disabilities

Your comments should go to:
Deputy Director, Planning Kathy Regan
PO Box 99
Ray Brook, NY 12977
Or via email SLMP_Comments@apa.ny.gov. At this point email will be the only way to get them there in time.
Further information on the Park and the Park Agency is available at http://www.apa.ny.gov .
Thank you very much for your support in this issue and continued support of the RAF.
Russ

Russ Holland
New York State Liaison
Recreational Aviation Foundation
rholland@theRAF.org
315.790.2824
http://www.theRAF.org

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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby KlausNW » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:10 pm

jjbaker wrote:We essentially need to be up their bum the second someone in that office tries to find out how to spell seaplane or aircraft.


We should hire our "Boat Plane" reporter to help them with their spelling. If they restrict Boat Planes then we won't need to worry.

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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby jjbaker » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:04 am

After the last batch of emails between the esteemed, I decided that it was time to book a relaxing 10 day vacation package in a quiet and peaceful location. Unfortunately, my hands were shaking so hard that I could barely control what I was clicking on. So, from now until 12/15/2014 you can reach me at the Ramadan Achmachal Inn in Kabul, Afghanistan. I might be taking part in some public women beating, stoning or other vacation activity that involves some other sort of violence. So if I am not in my room, please leave a message with Muhammad at the reception for Hassan El Bakar, Room 13.

Thank you!

:friendsforever:
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby jjbaker » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:04 am

Steven McCaughey wrote:I just wanted to advise everyone that SPA has been communicating with Kathy Regan, and there was no plan to even discuss seaplanes at this meeting. There are three bodies of waters that are changing ownership from a private owner to the APA. These lakes have been in private ownership since 1865, and seaplanes were not legally permitted to operate on them per the private owner. Seaplanes will not gain access, but no further waterways will be affected and no water will be lost as a result of this amendment process.

SPA has been reaching out to our contacts regarding this issue since it came to our attention, and we are committed to being a part of any planning process that the APA undertakes that will potentially affect seaplanes in either a positive or negative manner.

If all goes as planned, no access should change as a result of this amendment process. We are monitoring this situation vey closely and will stay in close contact with those involved in the discussion making process.

Thanks to all that raised the flags of concern, and brought this to the attention of the community. SPA Would like to form a "Focus Group" that can monitor the situation close to ground zero, so if any members would like to participate and volunteer to assist in this effort you can email me at Steve@Seaplanes.org


I rest my case. :acute:
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby RKittine » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:35 am

See my response to Steve on the SPA forum.

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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby jjbaker » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:09 am

That's a nice response, Bob and it also makes me notice that you weren't included in the string of emails that went back and forth on this topic.

Its good to know that SPA has "contacts" within the APA and has successfully managed to portray it as if there was no issue with the currently proposed management plan. As if that was the reason for SPA's unawareness, the luck of the day was on SPA's side, this time. I greatly regret having informed SPA about this document, it lead to a heated email exchange, burned bridges that will not be rebuilt and portrayed in a painful manner just how extreme the talking down to people and top down iron fist management is on display within the association.

In essence, SPA perceives this forum, me and any person or group that is not comprised of 100% SPA members and any effort coming from those people as a screaming horde of idiots. Suffice to say, SPA had no idea that there even was such a document, hence changes to seaplane access could have easily been made and chances are, there wouldn't have been a single comment, other than what was organized on the grassroots level. What is wrong with making Mrs. Regan aware of the fact that seaplane pilots, amongst other users carefully monitor these decision making processes? Someone explain that to me, please. Would Mr. McCaughey have called Mrs. Regan too, if its wasn't for someone making the association aware of this master plan? I sincerely doubt it.

SPA's own NY field director had no idea of the APA plan or that this document even existed.

The one and ONLY thing regulators in this country can count on is that the pilot associations will spend more time and effort fighting non members to the bone than they will spend doing what they were supposed and paid to do. 5 years from now, the Adirondacks will be history to motorized users. The time to build these relationships has long passed, it is long overdue to start talking with APA. Mrs. Regan and APA should know damn well that we would like to talk with them when the time comes to make decisions. The fact that 375,000 boat users lost Lows Lake too is a weak excuse, the boaters in NY were and are just as unorganized and terribly underrepresented as any of our "300" seaplane pilots.

I rest my case and will let the secret underground CIA style contacts within SPA do their "professional" work.

SPA can then later, when the Adirondacks do in fact get closed to seaplanes as planned, refer to our emails and state that we brought their attention to us. Really, they would have just forgotten about seaplanes altogether, if it wasn't for these idiots who wrote these unprofessional, non SPA approved letters. Mark my words, it will happen.

Making it look as if letters that are not "coordinated or permitted by SPA" are counterproductive to healthy relationships with regulators is exactly what McManus repeatedly stated, basically every time he was told that he wasn't aware of things. There was one SPA letter, a few days before the end of the comment period, when Lows Lake went down for good. Later we were told that SPA had to pick its fights and that the inaction was somehow tactical.

I fear this all has more to do with the Associations monopoly and turf wars, not so much with honesty and truth. Maybe some will read Brad Parkers communication on this topic, maybe he has more "credibility" than I have. The behavior on display is known as clouding. The goal is to make the situation so hazy, unclear and hard to comprehend that most people will look for a leader to do the work. Dependency is fostered. In a hobby association, that's an act of institutionalized idiocy, point blank, but probably the only way to maintain power and control.

In essence, people are told that they have to be SPA members if they wish to be active in any sort of advocacy work, otherwise they will end up getting blamed for the associations repeated and common inaction and failure. I kindly remind folks about Alan Resnicke, who was one of these regulators attempting to reach out to the seaplane community. He came to me after his emails and inquiries regarding New Mexico had been ignored by Seaplane Pilots Association, for close to half a year. Now the state of New Mexico is one of SPA's advocacy successes. ;-)

Since my personal impression is that the value of SPA members is determined by the amount of money they donate to SPA, I must continue to decline membership. I am not one of those who can simply jet to FL for a membership meeting to slurp some Oysters and I am not one of those who can drop $1200 as a little donation during a membership meeting, together with 49 others, who all did the same. All I could ever bring to SPA would be to become one of the many who read the magazine, vote by proxy and have a decal on my truck. Hence I obviously cannot act on advocacy topics, serve on so-called "Focus Groups", nor can I communicate any sort of topic in any way shape or form with SPA in the future. Someone else will have to volunteer for this kind of stuff looking forward. Its has become literally unhealthy for me, I am not "in the trenches" certainly not entrenched in this exclusive group of special people.

Great job in making us and me in particular (again) look like idiots for ringing the alarm bell on this. Well noted. McManus had some talent with that, too.

I've tried for 5 years to get and maintain a working relationship with SPA on advocacy topics. Common sense would dictate that even people who do not belong to SPA for this or that reason wish to support ongoing advocacy topics. Now I learn that this just simply can't be done, because: Well, we've never done anything like that before. Its been a one way street for 5 years, I have yet to receive a single invitation to any of the esteemed "focus groups" and I come to realize that doing an idiotic act of reaching out repeatedly, doesn't make the act any less idiotic, it just makes it all the more senseless.

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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby KlausNW » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:37 pm

jjbaker wrote:
Steven McCaughey wrote:I just wanted to advise everyone that SPA has been communicating with Kathy Regan, and there was no plan to even discuss seaplanes at this meeting. There are three bodies of waters that are changing ownership from a private owner to the APA. These lakes have been in private ownership since 1865, and seaplanes were not legally permitted to operate on them per the private owner. Seaplanes will not gain access, but no further waterways will be affected and no water will be lost as a result of this amendment process.

SPA has been reaching out to our contacts regarding this issue since it came to our attention, and we are committed to being a part of any planning process that the APA undertakes that will potentially affect seaplanes in either a positive or negative manner.

If all goes as planned, no access should change as a result of this amendment process. We are monitoring this situation vey closely and will stay in close contact with those involved in the discussion making process.

Thanks to all that raised the flags of concern, and brought this to the attention of the community. SPA Would like to form a "Focus Group" that can monitor the situation close to ground zero, so if any members would like to participate and volunteer to assist in this effort you can email me at Steve@Seaplanes.org


I rest my case. :acute:


If the Seaplane advocacy groups were doing their job the amendment to bring these lakes into the APA would have included Seaplane use language.

Another thing that is bureaucratic double speak, Mrs. Regan statement "no plan to even discuss seaplanes at this meeting". No, the meeting was about motorized equipment including seaplanes. She didn't use the word "seaplane".

There are three bodies of waters that are changing ownership from a private owner to the APA. These lakes have been in private ownership since 1865, and seaplanes were not legally permitted to operate on them per the private owner. Seaplanes will not gain access, but no further waterways will be affected and no water will be lost as a result of this amendment process.

Is this really the way it works? As private owned lakes the private owner has the right to do as he pleases. I agree totally! As public owned lakes... shouldn't the "public" decide the use??

We lost again.
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby RKittine » Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:23 pm

Steve has responded to me and I have responded back.
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby jjbaker » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:10 pm

You'll get recruited as the new NY Field Director. :acute:

I am shocked to see that there is talk of only ~ 6000 members?
This number used to sound more like 7-8K in the past. Where did those members go?
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby cubdriver2 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:44 pm

jjbaker wrote:Where did those members go?


You been holdin out on us bub?

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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby jjbaker » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:20 am

hold (something) out on (someone or something)
~ to keep news or something of value from someone or a group.


Image Ho... Ho... Ho... Hold out on you?

Here's my source:



6,000 x $45.00 = $ 270,000.00 in Membership Revenue. Count ~ 1/2 of that going into Salaries & Benefits for staff.
I had always heard that there were well over 7,000+ members and that the number was growing moderately.

Then again, if 50 in attendance of a membership meeting get $60,000 dollars collected, it seems to be a matter of getting the members together to raise some serious money for all of the programs and projects. Maybe some AOPA style local fundraising events are indicated. There could be membership meetings in each state. Simply let a large wooden basket travel amongst those in attendance. Don't serve food until the basket is full and has 0% metal content.
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Re: Letters needed to help seaplanes in the Adirondack Mount

Unread postby RKittine » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:41 am

It will be interesting if during his hectic schedule that he takes the time to respond back again. In any case, I have hours in front of a computer each day and do get around the state and would be happy to help if I could contribute anything positive. I am just sorry that no other member has chimed in supporting what I have said. Maybe they will recall my secret pinkie ring!

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