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Adriatic seaplane news - update

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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby Rajay » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:50 pm

Don't know how old this photo is - I've seen it around the Internet for a while now - but it sure looks like ECA knows what they need to do to "schmooze" the local politicians, etc...

Image

Just not sure which is more problematic or expensive - the aircraft or its payload!
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby RKittine » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:39 pm

No wonder they have had spar problems.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby CFII » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:51 pm

Rajay wrote:Don't know how old this photo is - I've seen it around the Internet for a while now - but it sure looks like ECA knows what they need to do to "schmooze" the local politicians, etc...

Image

Just not sure which is more problematic or expensive - the aircraft or its payload!


Nice K-deice system
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:59 am

Nice solution for number of allowed seats (PAX) :)
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby CFII » Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:10 pm

It reminds me of a corny old production with some flying boat footage and a line of chorus girls lined up on the airborne wing titled "Flying Down To Rio" I believe.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby givens » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:57 pm

Image
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby CFII » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:46 am

givens wrote:Image


Dude, you're the Man, thanks for finding that.

I give the film's real aviation footage combined with chorus girls Four Stars -complete with choreographed slip stream induced WMs....
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby givens » Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:35 am

Hell man, you're in Seattle. That was a shot from Kenmore Air's inauguration of new service to Oak Harbor last summer! They know how to party up there!

CFII wrote:
givens wrote:Image


Dude, you're the Man, thanks for finding that.

I give the film's real aviation footage combined with chorus girls Four Stars -complete with choreographed slip stream induced WMs....
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby Rajay » Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:40 pm

RKittine wrote:No wonder they have had spar problems.

I've never heard anything about spar problems in a Grumman G-21A Goose.

The Chalk's Mallard (Grumman G-73T) that crashed in Dec. 2005 had spar problems only by virtue of the fact that 16 inch* (or thereabouts) cracks had never been properly repaired. (I'd bet that they started much smaller and grew because of the negligence. They also apparently had improper previous repairs which may have done more damage than good.)
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby Rajay » Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:53 pm

9aplus wrote:Nice solution for number of allowed seats (PAX) :)

As I recall, ECA had a Web page once upon a time (maybe even still) that discussed its "fleet" - on which it described the Goose as a 10-passenger aircraft. I've seen other commercial operators describe and/or actually operate a Goose that way too. The thing is, according to the FAA type certificate (ATC-654) under which it was originally approved and certified, it is only an 8-place aircraft, including the pilot's and co-pilot's seats!

"8 PCL-Am-FcM" essentially means "8-place (seat) Cabin Land - Amphibian - Flyingboat Monoplane" (not sure about the significance of the lower case "c" however.)

The 8 seat locations listed under ATC-654 include the pilot & co-pilot seats at an arm of -5 (i.e. 5 inches forward of the reference datum, which is the wing's inboard leading edge at the wing root) and only 6 more in the main cabin.

I once wrote to Klaus Dieter Martin, managing director of ECA, and asked him about that - how he could operate it as a 10-12 seat aircraft (including crew) when it was officially certified only as an 8-place aircraft, including crew. He told me simply that that was how ECA's operating certificate was written by the governing aviation authority. However, I have come to suspect since then that they still don't yet have any kind of official operating certificate or sanction from Croatian or any other European aviation authority.

Just sayin'...
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby RKittine » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:11 am

Jason, Another way to get multiple pages of posts in a thread - Add scantily dressed attractive woman.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby jjbaker » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:58 pm

Noted! :lol:
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:34 am

Rajay, some smart people Might Hear You ;)

In mean time:
http://www.ec-air.eu/home/

9A register state NOV/2013 here:
http://www.ccaa.hr/UserDocsImages/dokum ... oplova.pdf
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby Rajay » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:51 pm

Looks like they've done a lot of work to update & refresh their Web site since the last time I saw it.

If that .pdf file you referenced is supposed to be all aircraft on the Croatian civil aircraft registry, I still don't see their Goose with a current and/or valid registration (its former registration in Canada as C-FVFU was officially cancelled and de-registered as far back as 2005 IIRC.) I did see a Lake amphibian regsitered to ECA in there, however.

In any case, more power to them if they are finally able to start operating as a seaplane airline. They'll probably end up breaking a lot of new ground for others to be able to follow later.

Best of luck to you, KDM!!
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:57 am

Yes, Lake 9A-DLA has been a regular fixture outside at Pleso LDZA for several years now...

Here picture taken spring 2013, from local spotter:
Image
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:45 pm

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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby givens » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:34 pm

Does this actually have significance or just blowing smoke?

http://www.digitaljournal.com/life/trav ... cle/366673
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:39 pm

After 12 years of smoke blowing it is not easy to claim here goes the smoke again....

But same author recently promoted illegal operator/operations from near LDSH grass runway:
http://www.total-hvar.com/index.php/hva ... ma-flights
That "club" was joke and all was quiet again after 3 weeks, price for R44 (Robbie the widow maker) was 1200 euro per block hour and
no invoice with no VAT charged, small thing against local law -> coffee shops where closed down because of 10 kn (1,5 euro) bills
without fiscal report.

Today serious local news paper reported this:
http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/Split/t ... fault.aspx

Google translated:
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... fault.aspx
Not the best one, but you can get some basic info....

Facts valid today:
ECA have no any 9A registered seaplane

ECA have no AOC

ECA have no maintenance or contracted space to set up CAMO or Part 145
to keep any seaplane air/seaworthy

ECA have coffee shop in Korcula, with picture of seaplane on MENU
Image

Registered Airport on water not exist, within 9A Croatia.

ECA claims start in 2014. and all year around regular flights capability of DHC-6 floatplane on Adriatic :stink:

At the moment ECA is looking for Dalmatian/Croatian seaside top locations, for floating Lounge bars / Coffee shops
and seaplanes, if any, can be nice scene behind cocktails :elephant:
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:06 pm

Muppet Show, goes on...

http://www.croatia-split.com/blog/what- ... lines.html

European Coastal Airlines d.o.o. has been registered as a Croatian airline company since the year 2000 (click here to see the court register).
TRUE
In 2002 European Coastal Airlines was in possession of an AOC (Airline Operations Certificate) for seaplane operation and was flying actively in Croatia. Several flights came to Split harbour.
TRUE, FALSE, FALSE
Now under the new EASA (European Aviation Safety Agency) the AOC which is required by European Coastal Airlines is an AOC with a special permissions for water landings. European Coastal Airlines can only apply for this “special” AOC after European Coastal Airlines has at least 2 or 3 concessions. Only then there can be at 1 or 2 flight routes. With 2 or 3 concessions European Coastal Airlines can start the filing process for the AOC and submit the required information for the seaplane operation.
FALSE

So the facts are clear…….. the local authorities in Dalmatia are therefore responsible that European Coastal Airlines are up to this date still not even legally in a position to apply for this AOC with this special permissions because for over 3 years not 1 single concession has been issued.
FALSE

All the procedures in the certification process and in operating handbooks (OM-A) are specific for seaplane operation. The AOC procedure is clearly regulated by the EASA and is a clear and straightforward process. This is all controlled by EU regulations. There is no doubt that European Coastal Airlines will be granted an AOC by the authorities. Just like it was holding an AOC in the past. But the prerequisites is at least 2 or 3 concessions so at least 1 or 2 routes can be established.
FALSE

European Coastal Airlines understands some people may want us to have an AOC first, but this is simply legally not possible for the type of AOC and operation European Coastal Airlines will be applying for. In the final step of the AOC certification process a CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) inspector will sit in the plane and observe the flight, the passenger handling and the seaplane operation. How own earth does anyone think this can be done if there is no concession and not 1 single seaplane station and not 1 single route to be flown ?
FALSE

In addition it is also essential to know that EASA categorizes a twin engine turbine powered aircraft as a “complex” aircraft. The Twin Otter seaplane operated by European Coastal Airlines is a complex aircraft. On complex aircrafts landings off airfields can not be approved. Therefore all landing sites have to be approved by the CCAA before operation can commence. Therefore a concession for a location is required so the location can be approved.
FALSE

All documentation and applications for the AOC are ready and have been waiting for months to be submitted.

But once again……………. NO concession…………… No flight routes………….. NO AOC.
FALSE

Must read for ECA -> http://www.easa.europa.eu/flightstandards/air_ops.html
and -> http://ccaa.hr/default.aspx?id=97
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby givens » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:18 am

Somebody with these guys seems to have an unlimited supply of time & money to piss away.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:53 pm

Just to keep you folks up-to date with ECA - smoke blowing :)

http://www.croatia-split.com/blog/what- ... ibels.html

ECA under investigation by 9A CAA
http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/Split/t ... fault.aspx
Violation of Article 26. of Air traffic law - advertising and promotion of commercial service without valid AOC

I am only sorry about Viking, unnecessary getting bad name because of all this -> monkey business approach by ECA
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby givens » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:27 pm

Talk is sometimes not cheap, contrary to the saying. So are will they slog on or run out of money first?

9aplus wrote:Just to keep you folks up-to date with ECA - smoke blowing :)

http://www.croatia-split.com/blog/what- ... ibels.html

ECA under investigation by 9A CAA
http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/Split/t ... fault.aspx
Violation of Article 26. of Air traffic law - advertising and promotion of commercial service without valid AOC

I am only sorry about Viking, unnecessary getting bad name because of all this -> monkey business approach by ECA
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:05 pm

Have no clue...
For sure business model is not public transport oriented. Instead of aviation, they like to sell cocktails...
Why is necessary to claim something so untrue... for example:
What happens with bad weather? Cancellations?

In the majority of the cases we will be able to fly without any issues, even when the regular ferry connections cannot operate. In the unlikely event of a cancellation of the flight due to bad weather you will be able to rebook your flight without any further costs or inconvenience. If you would like to cancel your trip completely we will simply return you your money.

From http://www.ec-air.eu/faq/

They claim that, for all year operations with DHC 6 - 300 floatplane
:popcorn:
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:16 pm

Today is 1st March 2014
You can book your flight online by 1st of March 2014 on this website or in one of our ticket shops at all our destinations, which will open latest on the same date

From here:
http://www.ec-air.eu/en/faq/

:B.S.:
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby givens » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:46 pm

The banner at the bottom of the web site says starting in May 2014. Maybe they should have just put May without the year and not have to edit it later.

9aplus wrote:Today is 1st March 2014
You can book your flight online by 1st of March 2014 on this website or in one of our ticket shops at all our destinations, which will open latest on the same date

From here:
http://www.ec-air.eu/en/faq/

:B.S.:
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