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Adriatic seaplane news - update

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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby ISPA » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:38 am

Hoping this operation goes through!! How big of a fleet to service 30 areas??? Where are you going to find the pilots???
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:48 am

All solved, trust me.... 6 amphibian DHC 6 out of the box too ;)

One more:
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... ka&act=url
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby givens » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:57 pm

So have these guys actually bought airplanes?

Please say they're not amphibs.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:03 pm

No clue..... but sure not from Viking.... (so far)

Yes, yes, must be :-P
What experience :-) to carry around 930 kg of "gear"
and gamble to land on dry runway after night spent in salty Adriatic ;)
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby CFII » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:11 pm

9aplus wrote:All solved, trust me.... 6 amphibian DHC 6 out of the box too ;)

One more:
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... ka&act=url


Decent choice on the amphibious aircraft for the mission required. Best of luck!
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:39 am

Old news, but have some meaning for sure......

August 6, 2009
Air Sea Lines announced at the start of this season that they will not operate their seaplanes this summer. In fact, all 3 planes have departed Corfu, they are not stationed in Gouvia Marina anymore, although their hangar and other support equipent are still there.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirSea_Lines

This story was in same sea, near Adriatic Greece, economic was still in fair conditions.....

Anyone, knows more?
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby seaplanecraig » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:32 pm

Is this company really ever going to start? I have been following them since I began my training 5 years ago and every year a new article comes out suggesting next summer the services will begin! Another article similar to the one posted above, this one dated 22/10/2012. I really hope they do, the Adriatic coast is beautiful. I can certainly see myself there :)!

http://www.dubrovacki.hr/clanak/44246/s ... na-i-otoka
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:14 am

This story last longer than 5 years.... AOC was issued in 2001. regulatory environment was so-so.
Last 3 years regulatory environment is even worse.
May be someday we can expect some charters or promotional flights
but whole year scheduled service is not feasible using Twin Otter.
Negative sides:
- waves & winds, weather is calm even in summer only for morning flights
- salt
- sea traffic
- small congested ports
- infrastructure problem, docks or "airports on sea"
- no proper certified type of composite flying boat available WW

Positive:
Nice to see seaplane and take ride on nice calm weather
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby seaplanecraig » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:27 am

9aplus wrote:Negative sides:
- waves & winds, weather is calm even in summer only for morning flights
- salt
- sea traffic
- small congested ports
- infrastructure problem, docks or "airports on sea"
- no proper certified type of composite flying boat available WW

Positive:
Nice to see seaplane and take ride on nice calm weather


It is safe to say the negatives out weigh the positives then!
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby jjbaker » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:29 am

seaplanecraig wrote:
It is safe to say the negatives out weigh the positives then!


Its safe to say that some people would rather see our friend 9aplus stop talking about whats going on with ECA... :(

A few months ago, someone "complained" to me about the "revelations" and stated that bureaucracy was keeping ECA from being successful.
I was warned that I should not allow "unqualified comments" so as to avoid that my forum hindering/ discouraging startups in "post eastern block" countries.

I think we would all like to see Seaplanes starting to fly in Croatia, so I hope something comes together soon!
I invited the Managing Director of ECA to sign up here and tell us how we can help make things happen faster and better, but didn't hear back.

;)
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby Rajay » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:05 pm

jjbaker wrote:A few months ago, someone "complained" to me about the "revelations" and stated that bureaucracy was keeping ECA from being successful.
I was warned that I should not allow "unqualified comments" so as to avoid [the appearance?] that my forum hindering/ discouraging startups in "post eastern block" countries.

Re: 9aplus' comments and posts here versus the apparent bureaucratic intransience in Croatia, what does one have to do with the other?

I don't recall 9aplus ever claiming to be an expert on the situation over there or even someone who is in any way directly involved. He has always struck me as being just a seaplane enthusiast who has a front row seat that allows him to watch all the goings (or not yet goings) on and who likes to share what he has seen with the rest of us other seaplane enthusiasts here on this forum.

I have had my own personal and professional contact with a certain "Managing Director of ECA" but it didn't really amount to all that much and there was nothing about it that is actually worth discussing any further here, but because of it and a vested professional interest in all Grumman Goose operations around the world, I continue to follow this thread and other postings by 9aplus.

I too sincerely hope that ECA eventually succeeds in their endeavors, but I don't believe that local bureaucratic red tape is responsible for the fact that they claim to be able to operate a Grumman G-21A Goose commercially with up to 10 passengers when it was originally certified for only 8 people including the pilot. Or the fact that seven years after the Canadian registration of C-FVFU relative to Grumman G-21A s/n B-101 was officially cancelled, it is still carried by and displayed on that aircraft in Croatia. What's up with that?
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:08 am

Nice, nice.....

Now I am part of local "news" :-)

There is one more..... local 9A Association of operators, insist that all potential future
seaplane floating structures are in PUBLIC use. (Public Infrastructure)
This was not ECA intention....they like to have private use of floats/docks in not less than
30 Adriatic ports ;)
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby jjbaker » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:32 am

Pretty sure 9a understood what I meant. I did sent him the email I received on the subject, including my response.
We'll see where it all goes. The registration point is interesting...

I am glad 9a is keeping us up to date on whats going on with it.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:33 pm

Image
Recent update for your evaluation :shtf:

Source local dalmatian newspapers SD:
http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/Dalmaci ... porat.aspx

Automatic translation, (not fully accurate)
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... porat.aspx
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby kevinsky18 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:40 am

The link isn't working for me. Can someone post the English translation here?
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby S Robichaud » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:39 am

kevinsky18 wrote:The link isn't working for me. Can someone post the English translation here?


Here you go..

Although the German company "European Coastal Airlines" on several occasions in all the bells announced that the summer flying seaplanes from the city port to connect Split and the islands around it did not happen. The idea, however, to wait until the new Parliament the County Council after the local elections in May.

Leaders of German companies, recall, presented a project linking hidroavionskog Dalmatian islands with the largest coastal cities such as Dubrovnik, Split, Sibenik and Pula. The company has one of its aircraft, Grumman G-21A Goose with nine seats, while the rent, announced the media, took De Haviland DHC-6 Twin Otter with 19 seats, and Grumman G-111 Albatross with 30 seats.
County Bureau

Location for hidroavionsko dock in the port of Split is only provided in Amendment County regional plan, and that the area between the port and the chico hotel "Ambassador". As explained Zeljko Misic, assistant county manager for the marine and tourism, without the adoption of these amendments to the regional plan that was no hydroplane in the harbor.

- According to information from the responsible of the County Department of Planning, will probably go to a proposal to amend the plan for a new public review, which would mean that it will not be adopted in the mandate of the County Council. Before that there is no possibility for a settlement of this issue in the city spatial plan - explained Muscle. If a German company had to be patient, you will pass the bumpy road to their first landing seaplanes front Matejusa.
German companies 'European Coastal Airlines' will have to wait if he intends to develop the work of Goran SEBELIC Split / Cropix
The procedure is as follows: after being accepted locations in the County Regional Planning, requires the elaboration of a plan of a lower order, and that the Regional Plan of Split, in a way that on the basis of the plan can issue a building permit. After that it is necessary to determine the limits of the port area for the port, and then spend the records of the port area in the cadastre and land register. All of this is a prerequisite for tendering for the concession to hidroavionsko dock.

However, the Germans are not very technically prepared for cruise lines over the Adriatic. Grumman G-21 "European Coastal Airlines' currently does not fly, nor used. A few years ago written from a Canadian aircraft registration, and Croatian is not registered.

The aircraft is manufactured way back in the 1944th year and overhauled nine years ago. Grumman Goose has a star, ie, piston engines, and Aerosvijet is known to anyone who has tried to use such a plane without turbines must count on the very high cost of flight. For example, the cost of flying a Canadair CL 215 (also reciprocating engines) amount to 11,000 Euro per hour of flight. This fall the theory of cheap tickets.

Reciprocating

As for the Grumman Albatross aircraft that ECA intends to hire, on the 80-ies of the last century, received FAA certification on their stellate-piston engines, but its commercial use in the world is not implemented yet. Certainly not about seaplanes over the harbor and the surrounding islands.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby kevinsky18 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:27 pm

I'm not sure I understood it all. but i think the article is saying their idea is flawed and it's not going to work. someone feel free to correct me.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:13 am

Seaplane operation may work on Adriatic but not like scheduled.
Some island skips on good weather, some charter here and there.

Male/Maldives kind of operations are not possible because Adriatic islands have other kind of
shape, no reefs around to reduce waves.
Split - Resnik airport SPU / LDSP have option of possible sea airport and terminal like Male
but we have no all inclusive lagoon resorts on other side.
See here:
http://maps.google.hr/maps?q=split&hl=h ... anija&z=14

Pushing of seaplanes within main Split pax harbor with waves from heavy ferry and catamaran traffic
and open to waves from 3 main winds goes to dead end.
See here:
http://maps.google.hr/maps?q=split&hl=h ... anija&z=14

All assuming that Twin Otter on floats is only feasible way to go now.....
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:06 am

Recent picture from Split airport LDSP

Image

Sign of light?!

No sign of AOC or proper wings in local 9A register, but from 01.07.2013. we
are full EU member and any EU AOC and EU registered aircraft can be used.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby givens » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:04 pm

Well maybe they're not the "flying dead" after all. Still, a long slog for these guys. Only another 3 years and 3 million to go!
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby kevinsky18 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:10 am

hmmm well in the world of aviation office space is a cheaper way to "show" you're in business than buying a bunch of airplanes.

I do hope they become operational.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby givens » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:22 pm

9aplus wrote:Recent picture from Split airport LDSP

No sign of AOC or proper wings in local 9A register, but from 01.07.2013. we
are full EU member and any EU AOC and EU registered aircraft can be used.


Ah ............... so if an AOC holder based in (say) Greece decides to start operation in Croatia using Greek registered aircraft that would be acceptable under EU rules?

I assume that they would have to comply with local laws / regulations regarding docks, fuel, business license, etc. and have EU licensed pilots. I seem to recall some really hard to comply with regs. such as no T/O or landings closer than 300M to a shoreline, etc.

After July 1 can an appropriately endorsed maintenance shop in Croatia sign off maint. on any aircraft registered in any EU member state?

Anyway, the Eu. Coastal caper seems to have dragged on for jeez, what? at least 5-6 years and as far as anyone can tell, no closer to starting some sort of operation than they've ever been. Best of luck and all that of course, but nothing it seems to get too excited about yet.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:02 am

After July 1 can an appropriately endorsed maintenance shop in Croatia sign off maint. on any aircraft registered in any EU member state?

YES
Formally we are full member state from that day, meaning full EASA member
therefore 9A Part 145 with 9A Part 66 B1/2 - C licensed engineers can sign
off full maint. for valid types within organization.
Even today one small Part 145 shop on Zadar airport (IATA: ZAD, ICAO: LDZD)
performing line maint. for airliner Ryan Air.
Only some deep non compliance finding of EASA within CCAA.hr can be problem,
what is not impossible. Because lot of related EU directives are not active
within 9A and clock is ticking
For example:
The Commission Regulation replacing EU OPS and JAR OPS 3 is now published: Regulation (EU) No 965/2012
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 148:EN:PDF
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:53 am

Adriatic & ECA saga continues....

http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/Split/t ... fault.aspx

automatic translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... rl&act=url

Above article means in short that ECA like to be present in Split main harbor
instead to operate near main Dalmatian airport Resnik/Split LDSP.

Today I was present on local meeting on one of targeted islands.
Short impression is that demand from ECA is to have floating
lounge bars in already congested harbors and channels,
with some seaplane scenic equipment in background.
So they like to make $ out of cocktails and drinks, instead of flying

Well who can resist to have 30 lounge bars in one shot, on east Adriatic coast :shtf:
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:49 am

Some update on Dalmatia County Master Plan:
Image

http://www.dalmacija.hr/Portals/0/image ... ostora.jpg
huge file, slow loading

4 seaports included:
Split (Trogir) Resnik near LDSP (SPU)
Split main harbor*
Island Hvar, city of Hvar main harbor**
Island Vis, city of Vis main harbor

*congested port, heavy ferry&catamaran traffic, safety in question
**congested port in summer, congested strait in front of Hvar, major safety concern
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