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Adriatic seaplane news - update

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Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:18 am

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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:36 am

According to latest non offcial info from CCAA, ECA is live and planing operations for summer 2011. :mrgreen:

Fair seaplane Regulation within 9A & EASA almost not exist, supose FAA experience can be used....
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:22 am

We have new 9A regulations for seaplane operations....
http://ccaa.hr/default.aspx?id=777

And VOALA:
http://www.ec-air.eu/englisch/index.php

ECA is after 10 y of non activity announcing quite optimistic flight schedule :mrgreen:

Is it possible that Amphibian Twin Otter can carry break even on 20$ (USD) per PAX
on 24 nm distance like Split to Hvar :?: :roll:
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby Steve Riggins » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:38 am

It would seem unlikely.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:23 am

Another "Fairy tale" is above scheduled Grumman Gosse
in JAR Ops 1 commercial PAX operation

http://www.easa.europa.eu/ws_prod/c/doc ... n_2010.pdf
page 31

Grumman Goose G-21 on Annex II aircraf list :mrgreen:

Above all, no active 9A AOC, and marketing is running :oops:
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:02 pm

Santa news are early on Adriatic....
ECA now went in public with info abut Grumman G-111 operations from April 2012.

G-111 not less than 2 units for sale now in USA Billlabong and N42MY,
but operation under EASA and JAA :roll: is another story

http://www.aerosvijet.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=933:hidroavioni-poinju-letjeti-u-travnju-a-puni-red-letenja-vait-e-od-svibnja&catid=1:hrvatska
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby jjbaker » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:46 pm

That sounds rather neat!
I took the liberty to punch that into translate.google.com and here is what it all means:

Seaplanes from Adriatic ports begin to fly in April, a full timetable will be valid from May

13 November 2011

European Coastal Air Transport, a company that has announced hydroplane transportation between the islands and coastal ports, early next year, will regulate the organizational center of Split, that the first flights began in April, to a full timetable began to meet in May next year.
This is Aerosvijeta said company representative Michael W. Fuhrmann with the remark that it would soon dispose of the details to the public.

This year's spring was a small sensation when it was announced that it creates a company that will hydroplane in the south Adriatic Sea connecting Split and Dubrovnik and Korcula, Hvar, Vis and Lastovo and the other in the north of Zadar, Rijeka and Pula to Mali Losinj, Rab and other islands .

By September this year, this venture is the opening of "aerial highway" mentioned in the media without any news, so we are happy about the new information that the Croatian air carrier permit to fly, and the concession to use the maritime domain has since summer 2002. year.

According to previous announcements, the ECA will have an airfield with a harbor quay pontoon jetty from which the passengers are loaded in seaplanes.

In the second phase, when the spy 30 port-town, hidroplanskom to link our cities isocnoj to connect with Italian on the west coast. Brindisi, Bari, Foggia, Ancona, Rimini, Ravenna, Bologna, Padua, Trieste and Venice could be the next target of the European Coastal Airlines.

The fleet of the primary jet was Grummanov G-21a Goose with nine seats, while the rental company took the famous De Havilanodvov DHC-6 Twin Otter with 19 seats and Grumman G-111 Albatross with 30 seats.


Are you guys going to hire people to scrape bugs off the planes?

;)
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby kevinsky18 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:23 am

Interesting. Another Goose resurrected. I hope they do well. The Goose is a tricky plane, I do hope they have an experienced Goose pilot working for them.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:07 am

That Goose is here from y 2000. was in 9A register
now not any more :?:

http://www.ec-air.eu/presse3.jpg
http://www.ec-air.eu/presse1.jpg

Are you guys going to hire people to scrape bugs off the planes?

Well, my bet goes on Non Go item, again.....
Grumman can be nice time-machine back in history of pax aviation.
Who dare to operate Grumman on regular pax service in today's Europe,
sure need that to have some $ laundry or have kind of weird state of mind....
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby geodoc » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:51 am

Yeah, you have to wonder how this outfit still finds a way to keep the dream alive after years of an admittedly compelling romantic vision - "the golden era of flying boats", etc., but no "bums in seats" and VISA cards being charged. Fact is that you're not going to make it happen with a Goose and certainly not an G-111 Albatross. A straight-float Twin Otter - sure, but if they're thinking amphibs they should have a closer look at the useful load on that.

EASA's bad attitude about airplanes that are more than a few years old aside, can you imagine the flight to maintenance hour ratio for a G-111 like they say they intend to operate? Are you going to have an certified machine shop on AOG stand-by to whip up a landing gear mount casting when you discover one eaten up with corrosion? Where are you going to get airframe parts? Remember the G-111 is an FAR part 21 aircraft and HU-16 military surplus parts are probably not eligible for installation on it. How many G-111's got certified anyway under Part 21? How many are presently in airworthy condition? How about maintaining a pair of Wright R-1820's in Europe to commercial requirements? My AD search subscription does not even list the certificate holder or the G-111. Where do you fine AD's for a G-111?

What a nightmare.

Well, my bet goes on Non Go item, again.....
Grumman can be nice time-machine back in history of pax aviation.
Who dare to operate Grumman on regular pax service in today's Europe,
sure need that to have some $ laundry or have kind of weird state of mind....
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:32 pm

Right to The point Geodoc :mrgreen:
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:55 am

FYI, have done some research homework on ECA Goose:

http://www.planepictures.net/netsearch4.cgi?srch=C-FVFU&srng=2&stype=reg

Taken in Borovo hangar y 2005.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby Rajay » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:24 pm

geodoc wrote:Remember the G-111 is an FAR part 21 aircraft and HU-16 military surplus parts are probably not eligible for installation on it. How many G-111's got certified anyway under Part 21? How many are presently in airworthy condition? How about maintaining a pair of Wright R-1820's in Europe to commercial requirements? My AD search subscription does not even list the certificate holder or the G-111. Where do you fine AD's for a G-111?

I assume you meant "where do you find AD's for a G-111?"

Since there are none listed in the FAA online database, it may be that there aren't any. Maybe there should be some, I don't know, but that's what happens when a TC Holder does not live up to his responsibilities under FAR 21.3. The TC (A22SO) also just recently changed hands...well, almost a year and a half ago.

In answer to some of your questions, Grumman built 13 examples and all are still registered, but most have been in storage at Marana, AZ for years. Most have also recently been bought up by Marsh Aviation of Mesa, AZ. I'm guessing that they have a new turbine conversion fire bomber project in the works - and it's strange to me that they neglected to snatch up N42MY and Billabong's N121FB. N42MY was the very last G-64/HU-16 that Grumman built (actually as a model UF-2) and its advertised price was recently dropped from $995,000 to only $795,000. Might be that there's some corrosion issues with it. It has been operated in South Florida for quite a while now; I think it went to Mirabella Yachts from Paragon Ranch in Colorado (when it was N26PR) in the early to mid-1990's.

Here is some pertinent and interesting info from the TC:

Type Certificate Holder:
Amphibian Aircraft International, Inc.
c/o Dunlap, Grubb & Weaver, PLLC
199 Liberty Street, SW
Leesburg, Virginia 20175

Type Certificate Holder of Record Flying Boat, Inc. transferred (i.e. sold) the type certificate to Amphibian Aircraft International, Inc. on July 1, 2010.

Serial Numbers Eligible:

Under Production Certificate No. 23:
148325
148327
148328*
148329

Under Production Certificate No. 1050:
51-7243
51-7244
51-7249
51-7168
137901
141282
148326
9304
9308

*Life-limited to 8,900 “flight” hours because it retained its original 7075-T6 wing center section spar caps. See NOTE 3.
Now, my question is, did they literally mean “flight time” or should it have been Time in Service? Usually pilots are concerned with logging flight time and aircraft maintenance is governed by TIS.

In any case, that’s a total of 13 aircraft that were converted and re-certified.

Certification Basis:

FAR 21.27, effective February 1, 1965; CAR 4b, effective December 31, 1953, including amendments 1 and 2; FAR 36, effective December 1, 1969, including amendments 1 through 3; and most importantly FAR 25.2 for Transport category operations.

Although it is no longer noted on the current revision to the TC (rev. 7), older versions of the TC (such as rev. 5, dated April 15, 1984) contained the following additional information:

Production Basis:
Production Certificate Number 23 issued to Grumman Aerospace Corp, Stuart, Florida, under licensing agreement, dated 9 March 1978.

Production Certificate Number 1050 issued to Grumman St. Augustine Corp, St. Augustine, Florida, under licensing agreement dated 22 December 1981.

The other thing that is f#$ked up about this TC is that the aircraft were all identified by their former military serial numbers (a mix of USAF, USN, and USCG serial numbers) which actually changed over time as the aircraft were transferred from one branch of the service to another. They were not (and probably should have been) identified by either their original and theoretically “constant” Grumman serial or "construction" numbers - or better yet, since they were officially rebuilt and re-certified under FAR 25, with completely new serial numbers unique to the G-111 series.

Serial No. / Built for/model/service serial no. / Grumman c/n / Registration
148325 / USN UF-2 (148325) contract for JMSDF (9052) / G-460 / N116FB
148327 / USN UF-2 (148327) contract for JMSDF (9054) / G-462 / N115FB*
148328 / USN UF-2 (148328) contract for JMSDF (9055) / G-463 / N112FB
148329 / USN UF-2 (148329) contract for JMSDF (9056) / G-464 / N42MY
51-7243 / USAF SA-16B / USCG HU-16E (7243) / G-331 / N120FB
51-7244 / USAF SA-16B / USCG HU-16E (7244) / G-332 / N113FB*
51-7249 / USAF SA-16B / USCG HU-16E (7249) / G-339 / N121FB
51-7168 / USAF SA-16B / USCG HU-16E* / G-218 / N122FB*
137901 / USN UF-1 (137901) / G-374 / N51ZD
141282 / USN UF-1 (141282) / USCG HU-16E* / G-432 / N125FB*
148326 / USN UF-2 (148326) contract for JMSDF (9053) / G-461 / N117FB*
9304 / RCAF CSR-110 (9304) / G-452 / N118FB
9308 / RCAF CSR-110 (9308) / G-456 / N119FB

*These aircraft are currently (but incorrectly) registered as Grumman models “HU-16E” – as a result of which, it may be that they each did in fact do service for the USCG as such models. In any case, according to FAA TC A22SO, they are correctly identified only as Grumman models G-111.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:47 am

Nice and useful info....
Much appreciate on that..
BTW Billabong's N121FB offered for $350 k only
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:50 am

Marketing of ECA goes on, now again Twin Otter - low fares and "SAR capability"
http://slobodnadalmacija.hr/Split-%C5%B ... fault.aspx
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby geodoc » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:35 am

9aplus wrote:Marketing of ECA goes on, now again Twin Otter - low fares and "SAR capability"
http://slobodnadalmacija.hr/Split-%C5%B ... fault.aspx


Hi 9a,

Here's the translation that Google gives me:

It looks like things are not going so smoothly.

Another very important economic project for Croatia, especially in Dalmatia - the establishment of air links between major amphibian aircraft inhabited the islands and the mainland, which the Free first reported in detail the public could, unfortunately, as well as numerous now pompously announced investments Croatia, fail.

- Although this project is the German company's European Coastal Airlines, with headquarters in Zagreb has the unreserved support of the Deputy Prime Minister Domagoj Milosevic, ministries, and especially Minister Kalmeta, unfortunately, after so much time and energy spent, we are still almost at the beginning.

Funders who join us in this, for Ireland, strategically important projects are losing patience.

If the farthest end of the year we get the required concessions seaplane docks - floating pontoon, for starters, six locations, such as Split, Dubrovnik, Korcula, Hvar, Vis and Lastovo, investors will raise anchor and look for new destinations. Presumably this could be Montenegro, which would connect to the Italian coast, and Italy - said Klaus Dieter Martin, director of the ECA. Presumably this could be Montenegro, which would connect to the Italian coast, and Italy - said Klaus Dieter Martin, director of the ECA. Our source says that he will do so with great regret.

Banks that follow us in this business wants to start as early as next summer air service between these cities and islands, and thus begin to return money. If you do not receive concessions by year's end, there is no chance that planes fly between the mainland and islands, but next summer because of the need for the establishment of traffic for six months.

In such a case would be brought to the whole project into question, since the German investors abandon investments if they do not begin to realize over the next year. In this case it was about six of these concessions.

I do not understand why this is so. And while all of us in Croatia taps on the shoulder, the top people at the local government to the mayor, arguing that this project was a great general and useful for the whole country, we have two months since we applied for these concession stands on the site.

We believed that it would not go so slowly because we have a Vice President Milosevic and agreed at the ministerial level who, what and how to do.

Work for the 'constructor' for the job 'constructor'

Despite the Port Authority not to issue tenders. We call them, please. Correspond to no problems, everything will be as agreed, and go weeks, months - says Martin, referring to the company offering the ECA Dalmatia and the islands.

We want to establish seaplane transport in the Adriatic modern new hydroplane manufactured in Canada using the infrastructure seaplane port in the areas of all major ports in the coast and islands.

This will improve the transportation links between the Croatian cities and islands, as well as connections with the Italian cities, to improve living conditions and economic operations on the islands and to encourage further development of tourism.

The project is worth 35 million euros, and the ECA to the Adriatic, employing 125 workers. Work on the construction of port infrastructure seaplane would exercise a specialized construction company "Constructor" from Split - says Martin.

The importance of this project for Croatia, he said, lies in a significant improvement of the tourism product on the Adriatic coast, based on the fast and efficient transport links between the islands and the coast, the improvement in the areas of protection and rescue, fire prevention, prevention of sea pollution, fishermen and maritime inspections, environmental protection, and medical service and supply of islands and boats.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby CFII » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:22 am

It'd probably end up cheaper to wait for the new Dornier Seastars which are charterable amphibs for sure.

Check out the thumbnail VIDEO of old Dorniers operating in rough water and the new Seastars flying formation:

http://www.dornierseaplane.com/
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby jjbaker » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:26 am

Not sure. I think 9a has some experience with trying to get a Dornier Seastar.
@9a: Are you just following this saga from the sidelines, or what's your role in all of this?
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:23 pm

Well Jason my situation is bit complicated....

Personally I simply love all kind of seaplanes, that is pure fact 8-)

Here on Adriatic we have long history of seaplane operations
Like this one:
http://www.cosulich.it/home.php?m1=3&m2=63&m3=0
Later that co was known like Al Italia, European story comparable to small scale Pan Am :mrgreen:

And this is my home town (and island) Hvar year 1929.
Image
Dornier Do D "parked" near my favored Caffee in attempt to attract one lovely lady....

Adriatic and Mediteranean sea are bit salty because of pre-historical reasons.
(much more than rest of world wide seas)
In summer we have wind "maestral" performing each afternoon with average 1 m waves,
in winter siroco and bura wind&waves limiting speed catamaran boats operation for days.
So one Do 24, PBY 5A or HU-16 may be capable to operate but DHC 6 on floats not likely.

Concerning Dornier Seastar, nice story, long sad story with Fairchild, than you know the rest...
that seaplane was supposed to be produced here in now Bosnia - Mostar 1994. small local war, no fun.
Unfortunately today, people behind Seastar project are not serious, you people knows that too.

But my bred and butter arriving from rotary wing world...
All in restrictive operational and legislative environment of EASA and dumb-headed local ccaa.hr

So when one "business man" is trying to sell fairy tale package of 6 amphibian Twin Otters running
scheduled service for low fares, with 3500 fh per year and after that G111 too.
Than me stupid peasant, wonder to ask few questions around... For instance Jameel on Maldivian:
Do you people there, on both co, know that "Hans" guy? Answer negative....
Than me (stupid) looking to buy same kind of $ Laundry set, in hope, who knows ;)

My real hope is that we can have here some seaplane service, but scheduled like this tale
from zero not likely.
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:41 pm

New ECA media package:
http://www.ec-air.eu/englisch/press.html

G111 listed ;-)
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby CFII » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:31 pm

jjbaker wrote:LOL! Must be nice to have virtually unlimited funds to keep dreaming up more and more phantasies....
I wonder how many investors will loose their shirt on this one.


The funds for training those wing-walkers alone must be phenominal....
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:24 am

Well some "news" again, for next 2013. for sure :mrgreen:

http://slobodnadalmacija.hr/Hrvatska/ta ... fault.aspx

Dr. Srecko Favro, who on behalf of the Croatian Hydrographic Institute in Split and the Wessex Institute of Technology in the UK, and in which the speaker, hosted colleagues from around the world, said that in Croatia next year seaplanes connect the mainland with the islands, and our country to the world.

- The first phase of the project are introduced lines Split-Korcula at a price of 120 kuna, then Vela Luka-Zagreb, Zagreb-Hvar, Korcula and Vis-Zagreb. Starting port will be the beginning of Korcula, Vela Luka, Lastovo and Dubrovnik - said Dr. Favre, but no longer in the preparation of the project, in which German business people are investing big money, prominent in the Dubrovnik-Neretva county.


120 kn = (approx) $21 (USD) for distance of SEE ON GOOGLE MAPS

Than directly from Korcula island to Zagreb state capital all on Amphibian Twin otter

Miracle...... :shock:
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:54 am

Marketing goes ON and ON

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... ka&act=url

Amphibian DHC-6 for salty Adriatic / Mediteranean sea,....
cheers :-)
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby jjbaker » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:47 pm

Hey 9a... you still alive?
I am getting worried for your health and personal safety, this thread has received in excess of 2000 views today alone...

The forum has been flooded with traffic all day long and this thread got most of the hits........ :lol:

Whats going on? Is the Mafia after you?

;)
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Re: Adriatic seaplane news - update

Unread postby 9aplus » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:20 am

Well.... JJ

Maf.... may be the way how to gain 30 floating party structures permit
by one single signature within all Eastern Adriatic ports.
In that case dummy Seaplanes can be program plus only ;)
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