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Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:45 pm
Wanted to move off the other thread that had started out about the safety exit lighting system.
This is my older version Spare Air. I think they only make the 3.0 Cubic Foot and 1.7 now. This is the original 2.7 Cubic Foot, 3,000 PSA unit.
Had to put something next to it for size representation!
Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:15 am
Thanks for Moving thread. Like the scuby dog! Agree on the spare air in the bag being just another piece of loose baggage. Probably the best mechanical safety device was what the cup sailors wore this year on Oracle. It was a combination body armor , floatation device, camelback water, and spare air holder. Il try to find a picture of one but you probably saw it yourself. Don't know how practical in an airplane but it sure had everything.
Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:13 pm
Bob if you cut back on the Stella's you won't need the spareair to wake up
Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:48 pm
Your probably right Glen, but I am not a beer drinker. Keep some incase you visit. Bob (Too much wine though.)
Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:22 am
This picture invokes so many bad feelings, its not even funny. This could have saved my alcoholic Uncle!
He went to attend a Brewery tour in Germany in 1990 and slipped and fell into a 26000 gallon beer barrel.
When they called to tell my mom he had drowned she asked if he suffered or why nobody lowered a ladder for him to climb up.
They said they did and he came up 4 times to go pee, but eventually he was too drunk to climb up anymore and disappeared...
Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:45 am
It is hard to drink while breathing with one of these, though you can get a full face mask that connects to your stage two regulator that allows you to drink at depth.
Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:59 am
RKittine wrote:It is hard to drink while breathing with one of these, though you can get a full face mask that connects to your stage two regulator that allows you to drink at depth.
There's probably only 5 people on the planet who would have the experience and expertise in drinking while diving.
I always wondered how people go on longer dives and get liquid if they get thirsty. Not being a diver doesn't help.
Unless you carry one of those on your body, I cannot see how you will grab it along with the other life preserving equipment.
Of course, most seaplane upsets come with quite some force trauma, so if we manage not to knock ourselves unconscious (shoulder harness loose or not used at all to reach the flaps, water rudders or whatever else is conveniently out of reach in the particular airframe) I wonder if it really only makes sense to have it with a proper light source to find the exit (confused passengers). I understand the argument of charging an arm and a leg for something that may save your life, and I can see the sales associate using the old beaten path game to sell one of those... You'd logically have to buy one for each seat in your aircraft and then you still have to find a way to secure them so they don't float away in the airframe. Imagine your air bottle making its way back the tail.......
Q: "Why is this can of air so damn expensive?"
A: "Sir, are you really going to put a price-tag on your life and the life of your loved ones?"
You can basically make your own and save a ton of money. Wish we had some more active members, to find out how many of them use Spare Air.
Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:27 pm
The reason that the Spare Air is expensive as it is a Medical Grade Cylinder capable of holding Air at 3,000 PSI and it has a Demand Regulator on top that will provide the correct amount of air pressure to inflate your lungs with pressure on them regardless of the depth. People that do not dive usually do not realize how much pressure water exerts on you at depth. Remember seeing movies where someone hides in the water with there head and body underwater and breaths through a reed? Try it sometime, you can not suck hard enough to get any air if your head is fully submerged even if just under the surface. You can breath through a snorkel because your head and chest are half out of the water on the surface.
At 130 feet you get about 5 breaths out of these bottle as the amount of air required to inflate your lungs is considerable at that depth. From 130 feet down, you can make it to the surface without exceeding your bubble ascent rate and therefore reduce the chance of getting the bends. Out of the water you can probably get 100 breaths out of the same bottle.
With regard to wearing it, I ware it on a special holder on the front of my BC (Buoyance Compensator) and it is ready to use. Would be a little bulky in a plane, but mounted in easy reach, it would help if you had to get a stuck seat belt off or help some else etc.
I am going to start carrying it (Yes Glenn when I get a Chief on my Floats) next season.
Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:38 pm
We used to be fascinated by " Sea Hunt " when we were kids and used a 10' section of garden hose to spend time in the bottom of the pool.
Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:02 pm
Lack of oxygen causes brain damage, if I remember correctly.
I used to get confused and lost snorkeling in the bathtub... Now I rent a house without a bathtub. Problem solved.
Thanks for the explanation, Robert. Seriously, I don't know the first thing about diving.
All my limited diving experience is with deep bullshit diving in the seaplane advocacy world, and at my regular depth normal people would need a shit compactor or bullshit compressor to keep on breathing. Nasty stuff, no bottle helps and it causes terrible diarrhea on occasion.
You do definitely not have to drink this bottle of beer alone, I can come help you with that!
Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:07 pm
OK Thanks Jason, Hopefully Glenn, Tim and I will meet you before your leave for Europa. We will have to bring at least a full case.
I mainly dive on a tri-mix re-breather, which provides warm moist air, but if I am diving on Surface Air or Nitrox, you do get dry mouth from it and many diver do carry liquid that they can drink at depth if it will be a long dive. It is tricky though without the special regulator or mask. The full face mask also allows speaking under water with the right accessories.
Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:55 pm
Spare air in a seaplane is no different than a parachute in an airplane both are expensive and add weight.... UNLESS! .... You are trained , practiced and have a plan or better yet .... Plans. I've known glider pilots who proudly told me they now wear a parachute and how's it's the latest and greatest most comfortable one money can buy. When I ask what speed and altitude they have for minimum exit limit and how they plan to get out under several scenarios. The golden parachute suddenly isn't so magical. The best safety device in any emergency is training, practice and experience and the wisdom we build every time we ....up and survive anyway. But just in case you still believe in magic ..... I have a pair of ruby red shoes you can just click your heels together and say ..... There's no place like Home. They're the comfortable and the best magic money can buy. All I need is your credit card.
Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:19 pm
I've been thinking of getting spare air for some time and sewing in a holder for it on the seat. You can get them for a decent price on eBay.
Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:38 am
Most suppliers sell them with a holder included, that you can rig to attach where you want. When I used to dive with one (carry a "Bail Out" Bottle now) I used to have it on the middle of my chest. Ready to go.
Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:00 am
I have not crashed a plane in the water, but I have been in the helicopter dunk simulator. A lot of the waters I fly over are glacier silt or cook inlet which in the upper 2/3s of the inlet the water is so muddy and murky (due mainly to the 2nd largest tides in the world) that once your 1' under the surface it is blacker than the ace of spades. If you survive the flip and are not knocked silly, your not going to find the spare air fastened to any part of the airframe. If its not on your chest or body the chances of you finding it and using it are slim to none. Between the shock of the cold water <45 degrees most of the time and the disorientation, I dont see the spare air being useful if its fastened any place but on your body, and you have the presence of mind to grab it. Panic is a bitch, and when your world goes dark, cold and upside down, only a select few will have the presence of mind to get the air out and in their mouth. I would hope I would, but I have my doubts.
I am with Bob, when diving I had mine on my chest and had to use it once when my regulator froze up and suddenly couldn't take a breath off the 2000# I had in my tank. I went the shop and bought a new BC with an air source built in to the BC as well as having the spare air on my chest. It sucks to have air at 120' that you cant use!
Just my .05
Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:31 pm
I know that feeling Leonard. I have had people in my dive group yank my regulator out of my mouth in panic when they got a hit on their's and forgot they had an octopus. When in murky water and disoriented, it is also good to get a good blast of bubbles going as like being disoriented inside a cloud, it is easy to not know which side is up when you are basically weightless and down a ways. My first rebreather flooded on me once and having the Bail Out bottle saved the day. Now I carry a spare dilution bottle as well as the bail out, but if I am diving on Air or Nitrox then the Spare Air is with me and close to my mouth. I don't teach much anymore, but during the Advanced Diver class I always had students have a total 1st and second stage failure as soon as they hit 130 feet and make an ascent on a 2.7 Cubic Foot Spare Air only.
Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:21 pm
This goes back a few years- but the guy that taught me cave diving required that I be able to breath straight off the j valve on the bottle and we used to practice regularly . Like everything else with training and practice it becomes second nature .
Was trained to do that also. No fun, but good to know if you are deep and have an overhead enviornment and have a first or second stage failure. With my Rebreahter, if I am going beyond 150 feet, I carry a tri-mix bail out bottle and a 36 Nitrox bail out bottle.
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