Member Support

Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Share Safety & Training Tips With Fellow Instructors, Pilots + Students!

Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby RKittine » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:16 am

When I worked for Carpedia, the consulting firm, we did a number of projects for this company, partly because of it poor safety record. I wonder if they have slipped again. Doen't bode well for this company or our industry.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pilot ... spartandhp

Bob
SUPPORTING MEMBER

Bob
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C. New York, New York - East Hampton, New York & Warwick, New York 631.374.9652
rkittine@aol.com WA2YDV
User avatar
RKittine
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 5133
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:02 am
Location: Manhattan and Sag Harbor, New York

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby jjbaker » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:23 pm

Very sad to hear of the crash. Not good. Poor pilot. Poor mechanics. Poor management company.
User avatar
jjbaker
Owner/ Admin
Owner/ Admin
 
Posts: 6065
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby KlausNW » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:05 pm

Two tourists, a journalist and two helicopter employees died in a Sunday night helicopter crash in the East River. Dallas firefighter Brian McDaniel, video journalist Trevor Cadigan, tourist Carla Vallejos Blanco, and helicopter employees Tristan Hill and Daniel Thompson were identified by officials as those who died. The sole survivor and pilot, Richard Vance, told investigators that it may have been caused by a piece of luggage. Vance said a passenger’s bag “may have inadvertently hit the emergency fuel shutoff button,” an official told CNN. The Federal Aviation Administration said a team of 14 National Transportation Safety Board officials would be investigating the cause of the crash...


If the pilot's story pans out, it's just a freak accident. Sometimes the best practices can't prevent something going wrong. We'll see.
Klaus Marx - Piper Pacer Pilot
Juneau, AK & Wenatchee, WA . . . . . . Click on Link Bar to view the 'non-profit' group.
Image Image
Image
User avatar
KlausNW
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 9:33 pm
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby RKittine » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:23 pm

I also read that story and the possibility. They used to have some lax procedures and putting luggage anywhere near a fuel cut off would be one that shouldn't be.

Bob
SUPPORTING MEMBER

Bob
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C. New York, New York - East Hampton, New York & Warwick, New York 631.374.9652
rkittine@aol.com WA2YDV
User avatar
RKittine
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 5133
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:02 am
Location: Manhattan and Sag Harbor, New York

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby jjbaker » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:13 am

AVwebs Paul Bertorelli has picked this up for one of his very soberly written blogs, causing some great analysis by some very smart peeps.

Unfortunately, killing filthy rich people who had their beautiful superstar lives ahead of them and just wanted some cool images for their damn Instagram profile isn't exactly good advertising for this industry.

So, all the logical analysis goes to the dog's, because that's not what Cuppa Joe Public likes to read about.

https://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/Eas ... 437-1.html
User avatar
jjbaker
Owner/ Admin
Owner/ Admin
 
Posts: 6065
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby RKittine » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:55 am

Sight Seeing is one of the draws of the non-aviation crowd, to aviation, so I think it should be supported, but also should be as safe as possible.

Helicopter Tours on the Grand Canyon have had disastrous results as have some seaplane tour operations, but people still are willing to spend money and risk it in order to see the world from another perspective. I built time doing (Sky Rides) around the Alpine Tower, the birth place of FM, down the Hudson River, over the George Washington Bridge, around the Statue of Liberty than over the middle of Neward Airport at 1,300' and back to Morristown.

Yes, some people have more money than others, but then I am happy to take it when offered. Would it be less offensive for the industry if the dead had been poor people that scraped up enough to do something that might be on their bucket list. I have no problem with people that make tons of money as long as in doing so it was done legally and did not hurt me.

Bob
SUPPORTING MEMBER

Bob
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C. New York, New York - East Hampton, New York & Warwick, New York 631.374.9652
rkittine@aol.com WA2YDV
User avatar
RKittine
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 5133
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:02 am
Location: Manhattan and Sag Harbor, New York

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby jjbaker » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:29 am

0h, not to be taken in offense, but generally filthy rich people have the needed dime to hire expensive attorneys and make sure that the family of the departed get reimbursed properly.

We will never get away from high visibility accidents, but none of it gets any less or more sad based on the net worth of those who died.

Tortlaw needs REFORMING, but that will spell disaster for a lot of ambulance chasers and those who secure their future through the mistakes or incidents of others.
User avatar
jjbaker
Owner/ Admin
Owner/ Admin
 
Posts: 6065
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby RKittine » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:35 am

I totally agree that the U.S. needs Tort reform, but disagree that it is the rich that have the where with all to hire an attorney and sue, as the attorneys in this country are lined up to take on cases like this on contingency fees. Even the poorest have Equal Suing Rights here. In my experience, those who do not have much are usually the most enthusiastic to try to get in on the cash, the quickest. The ultra rich don't do it for the money, but for the fun of it.

Bob
SUPPORTING MEMBER

Bob
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C. New York, New York - East Hampton, New York & Warwick, New York 631.374.9652
rkittine@aol.com WA2YDV
User avatar
RKittine
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 5133
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:02 am
Location: Manhattan and Sag Harbor, New York

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby jjbaker » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:00 am

Looks a bit swift. Who would have thought that a dinosaur could move so quickly...

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/F ... 456-1.html
User avatar
jjbaker
Owner/ Admin
Owner/ Admin
 
Posts: 6065
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby RKittine » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:09 am

I assume you mean swift to make the change to the regs? With Liberty's track record, maybe this has been on the drawing board for some time. The 50 blocks though is not surprising. If you have not experienced the East Ride at anything but Slack Tide (when all sails make way in and out) then you haven't fought that current.

It will be interesting to see why the inflatable skids did not work and keep it upright. Passenger briefing? Just goes to show you, unless trained for it, easy to panic and not do the right thing, briefing or not. I think I will sign up and take the water ditching course this season.

Bob
SUPPORTING MEMBER

Bob
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C. New York, New York - East Hampton, New York & Warwick, New York 631.374.9652
rkittine@aol.com WA2YDV
User avatar
RKittine
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 5133
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:02 am
Location: Manhattan and Sag Harbor, New York

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby KlausNW » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:17 pm

Bob, is this true?

Statement from Avweb blog:
How could this slip through the regulatory cracks? One reason is that tour companies operate under Part 91, in a netherworld somewhere south of Part 135. For-hire tour operators are required to have pilot drug testing programs, but they don’t need defined op specs like other for-hire businesses. They operate under specific Letters of Agreement, the FAA’s all-purpose catchall strategy when both the industry and agency agree that more forceful regulation isn’t needed.


https://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/Reg ... 470-1.html
Klaus Marx - Piper Pacer Pilot
Juneau, AK & Wenatchee, WA . . . . . . Click on Link Bar to view the 'non-profit' group.
Image Image
Image
User avatar
KlausNW
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 9:33 pm
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby jjbaker » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:03 pm

Isn't that 14 CFR Part 136 Regulations as umbrella with LOA where required?
User avatar
jjbaker
Owner/ Admin
Owner/ Admin
 
Posts: 6065
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby RKittine » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:33 pm

They do operate under part 91. They are not considered a Charter Service. And they take off and land at the same place, With your commercial ticket, a 2nd Class Medical and your GA airplane, you can do sightseeing / photo tours all over the place and even go to other airports. Lots of FBOs do "Sky Rides" without putting anyone on the 135 certificate. I can remember in the 70s flying regularly from Spring Valley New York to Montauk with my single passenger in the front seat and logging it as Dual Instruction.

Bob
SUPPORTING MEMBER

Bob
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C. New York, New York - East Hampton, New York & Warwick, New York 631.374.9652
rkittine@aol.com WA2YDV
User avatar
RKittine
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 5133
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:02 am
Location: Manhattan and Sag Harbor, New York

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby KlausNW » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:47 pm

Jason, 136 is: COMMERCIAL AIR TOURS AND NATIONAL PARKS AIR TOUR MANAGEMENT
136 is: OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: COMMUTER AND ON DEMAND OPERATIONS AND RULES GOVERNING PERSONS ON BOARD SUCH AIRCRAFT

Thanks for confirming the part 91.

In Alaska, many pilots tried to do a makeshift commercial operations playing on every regulation. I'm guilty of doing a little rules massaging myself. The thing that put a stop to the bootleggers and student flight training when not actually training was the advertising campaign the 135 operators started.

Commercial 135 operators have minimum insurance requirements per seat required. The air-taxi operators put the insurance requirements into their advertising and warned against the non-insured.
Klaus Marx - Piper Pacer Pilot
Juneau, AK & Wenatchee, WA . . . . . . Click on Link Bar to view the 'non-profit' group.
Image Image
Image
User avatar
KlausNW
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 9:33 pm
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby RKittine » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:17 pm

Yep, Now that I am flying under BasicMed, I can still instruct and be pilot in command, but I can not get paid to Fly? So, no more Part 135 for me and I have no intent to push the rules and play the flight instruction / charter game. If someone wants me to take them something. We share expenses and if they want instruction at the same time, that is fine, but only if it is legit.

Funny things too, when I was at IBM, the whole fleet was run like an airline and they operated in Part 135, but at Stone Container, all 7 Jets and one King Air operated Part 91.

Bob
SUPPORTING MEMBER

Bob
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C. New York, New York - East Hampton, New York & Warwick, New York 631.374.9652
rkittine@aol.com WA2YDV
User avatar
RKittine
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 5133
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:02 am
Location: Manhattan and Sag Harbor, New York

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby jjbaker » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:55 pm

I didn't claim to know, just a wild poking guess from the Dumbo peanut gallery. Execute me!

:cheers:
User avatar
jjbaker
Owner/ Admin
Owner/ Admin
 
Posts: 6065
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby RKittine » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:44 pm

Neither Klaus nor I want to shoot you and Klaus was just pointing out that it was not 136.
SUPPORTING MEMBER

Bob
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C. New York, New York - East Hampton, New York & Warwick, New York 631.374.9652
rkittine@aol.com WA2YDV
User avatar
RKittine
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 5133
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:02 am
Location: Manhattan and Sag Harbor, New York

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby jjbaker » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:02 am

Execute me is my German American hybrid way of saying Excuse me. Besides, ya'll can't shoot me cuz yer can't bring yar damn guns to where I am. You'd need a license to carry a concealed cotton ball here!
User avatar
jjbaker
Owner/ Admin
Owner/ Admin
 
Posts: 6065
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby RKittine » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:36 am

I guess your safe for now .......... But, there is always future trips to the U.S., where some of us can carry. :elephant:
SUPPORTING MEMBER

Bob
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C. New York, New York - East Hampton, New York & Warwick, New York 631.374.9652
rkittine@aol.com WA2YDV
User avatar
RKittine
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 5133
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:02 am
Location: Manhattan and Sag Harbor, New York

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby jjbaker » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:34 am

I shake like Espenlaub!

:lol:
User avatar
jjbaker
Owner/ Admin
Owner/ Admin
 
Posts: 6065
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby KlausNW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:01 pm

I don't need to bring a gun anymore, just 3d print one when I get there. :acute:
:mrgreen:
Klaus Marx - Piper Pacer Pilot
Juneau, AK & Wenatchee, WA . . . . . . Click on Link Bar to view the 'non-profit' group.
Image Image
Image
User avatar
KlausNW
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 9:33 pm
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest

Re: Here Goes Liberty Helicopters Again

Unread postby RKittine » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:43 pm

I guy on AccurateShooter.com with a metal 3D Printer actually printed a rifle action that worked and handled rifle cartridge pressures. Like a CNC machine with metal extrusions.
SUPPORTING MEMBER

Bob
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C. New York, New York - East Hampton, New York & Warwick, New York 631.374.9652
rkittine@aol.com WA2YDV
User avatar
RKittine
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 5133
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:02 am
Location: Manhattan and Sag Harbor, New York


Return to Seaplane/ Aviation Safety, Safety Events & Survival Topics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests