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Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby TriPacer » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:13 pm

Hey guys,

Just got my carry permit and have a gift card from Cabela's burning a hole in my pocket. What do you have for recommendations on handguns? I'm sure this will kick off a firestorm, but hey, a little lively discussion would be nice considering it feels like the lakes will never thaw in MN right now.

FWIW - I'm a pretty big guy with big hands. For CCW purposes, I'd prefer a smaller weapon but not so small that my hands dwarf it. My only experiences with handguns are with a .40 and a .22.
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby RKittine » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:27 pm

For 7 Years I carried a Walther PPKs every day due to the size. .380 Auto isn't that effective, but I never had to use it either. When I would buy a new suit and the tailor would ask what side I wore it on, I would always say, right arm pit! I am left handed and have a left dominant eye, though I shoot a shot gun and rifle right handed. Wasn't what he meant, but he soon got used to it. (Jason, I was real active SPCC at that time)

When I had the gun shop, I sold a Bordachowsky .25 ACP to a guy that had to use it, with pretty poor results. He has 7 or the 8 slugs that were recovered, mounted on a Walnut plaque with a life size picture under Plexiglas also mounted on the plaque. But that is a whole other story.

I like my S&W 645, but it is little hefty. SS, Double Action 45 ACP. I have an 8 3/8" Model 29, but only Dirty Harry would wear that under a suit. It is in the hunting section only, though the 44 Bull Dog is a pretty strong defense weapon if you can hold onto it for the second shot. It was Son of Sams weapon of choice, which did not help Charter Arms sales out too much.

My FN H 57 (Five.seven) can penetrate most body armor, but I can not make use of the Super Capacity magazine in New York State.

I used to carry a Browning High Power, but do not really like Single Action Autos.

A revolver is always good as they do not jam. I have a S&W model 60 that I have carried concealed.

Have too many handguns to bother getting into the HKs and Sigs, but there are plenty of good ones there as they have become very popular. The Beretta 92 series has been a mainstay for years.

A lot depends how who you want to shoot with it and from how far away. I have always considered a defense weapon to be a 7 Yard, Belly Gun. Farther away than 21 feet, go the other direction. For a true defense gun, leave off adjustable sights and those things that can catch on a holster.

If you are going to regularly carry, Stainless Steel or Nickel plated will be a big help as salty body acid will eat a finish almost as fast as salt water.

That is my 2 cents worth.

Bob

P.S.- Forgot one important thing. What is your budget? In 1970 when I bought my PPKs with my FFL, I paid $71.00!
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby TriPacer » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:01 pm

That's some great info! I didn't realize you owned a gun shop - just one more thing that Bob's done I suppose!!

I've heard pretty good things about the S&W M&P 9mm. I think I'm going to have to go to a range where they rent out handguns and give quite a few a try. My father-in-law has a .357 revolver that is a decent size. Packs a lot of punch, too. Of course that always brings into question the ability to maintain accuracy.

Oh yeah - the budget would be maybe around $500 for a compelling case, but I wouldn't mind paying less.
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby RKittine » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:07 pm

Posted pictures of the inside of the shop, some time ago. Had the shop from 1970 until 1986 and my FFL until 1997. The S&W 9mm Double Actions are good. .40 carries more punch in about the same size and slightly smaller than the .45.

I have a model 19 S&W .357, but it is a 6" with Target sites and target trigger and hammer. Also have a model 27, which is the .357 version of the .44 Magnum Model 29. They made that with a 2.5 " Barrel, but like the Charter Arms, I do not like .357 with that short a barrel. For a defense weapon you do not need to be pretty and if you are not going to compete with it, a used gun may help in both being lower in price and already having some wear, which in and out of a holster will do anyway.

Bob

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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby Tim McCormack » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:05 pm

I just applied for my CWC permit too, in Florida. I've had a New York State pistol permit for over 40 years, but it's not valid in Florida, or many other places for that matter. New York won't honor any other state license, so they, in turn, won't honor New York's. That's only right, I guess. It's just another example of the BS that we put up with in the Empire state.

Now I'll be able to bring a gun with me when I travel to Florida. This CWC permit is good in all the states that I pass through, plus a bunch more.

As usual, Bob is loaded with good info. I'll reiterate what he said about caliber; the .25 and .380 are nice to carry, but only boarderline if you need to actually use it. I'd say the 9mm is the lowest energy level you should consider. From there it's just a matter of finding something that suits you. And if only the .380 fits your requirements for concealablity and ready access, it will definitely be better than not having any.

Whatever you choose, the more important consideration is how much you practice with it. If you choose to carry, it's your responsibility to be competent with it.
The instuctor in our class sugested that all practice with your carry gun should be at 10 to 15 FEET (NOT yards). It needs to be a point-and-shoot reaction. You won't have time to aim if you really need the gun.
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby RKittine » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:25 pm

Tim,

Do you remember what thread I posted interior pictures of my sporting goods store in

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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby RKittine » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:53 pm

[quote="RKittine"]Tim,

Do you remember what thread I posted interior pictures of my sporting goods store in ? Got my CW permit in 1970 and thanks to John Jovino my New York City Carry permit in 1973.
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby cubdriver2 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:29 am

Just like a camera if its a pain to carry you soon won't. 380 size and weight is nice to carry but not enough weight or size coming out of the barrel. I wanted something that fit in my coat pocket and almost bought a 380 but in a cold climate area it's not very effect 7 months out of every year. S&W 2 years ago came out with the M&P Shield in 9mm and 40 S&W. 19 ounces, hammerless and very easy to carry. Packs a punch in 40 cal, 165gr JHP. MSRP is $446.00 but if you know someone who is or was a cop Atlantic Tactical will ship for $370.00. I love mine.

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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby CFII » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:26 am

How much and how does cold climate make the .380 not that effective?
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby RKittine » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:26 am

Cold weather can effect all autos not just a .380. Keep excess oil out. More layers of clothing on the perpetrators too. Most of my handguns are much older models, so I am not up on a lot of the new tactical stuff that is popular now.
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby Stevesbrother » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:27 am

380 effectiveness in cold weather? Depends on how many layers they're wearing! If in close head shot .... If not. Run like hell . Cold weather carry weapon 45 with low speed and high fragmentation. Laser sites ...cause you'll be close and won't have time to take a stance. Watch crimson trce video on training with laser and laser use, then buy lots of practice ammo and shoot, shoot, shoot. This is one tool that needs to be just an extension of your body that you don't have to think about to use. There's only one weapon in the world .... The human mind...... Everything else is just a tool! Stay safe ! " it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6".

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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby Tim McCormack » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:04 pm

I'm not very familiar with lasers. Do any of those built in ones turn on automatically? If you need the gun for it's intended purpose you won't have time to switch on a laser.

Bob, no I don't remember where you posted the pictures. I'm sure it was in one of our discussions about the MANY interests you've had. It shouldn't take long for you to go through the 3420 posts you've made. :lol:
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby Stevesbrother » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:03 pm

Hey Tim check out the crimson trace website. The switch is built into the grip when you grip the the tool the laser activates . You can learn to shoot,from many positions easily and quickly. Makes any handgun much more versatile and effective. Crimsontrace.com Some great videos for defensive shooting. Every carry tool I have has a crimson laser on it they have them for all most all models. Fun to learn new shoot techniques also
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby CFII » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:45 am

Note to self: Open perp's coat first in cold weather to maximize efficiency of shot....
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby RKittine » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:35 am

Unless you are good enough to shot through a button hole at 5-7 feet!
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby Tim McCormack » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:03 pm

Stevesbrother wrote:Hey Tim check out the crimson trace website. The switch is built into the grip when you grip the the tool the laser activates . You can learn to shoot,from many positions easily and quickly. Makes any handgun much more versatile and effective. Crimsontrace.com Some great videos for defensive shooting. Every carry tool I have has a crimson laser on it they have them for all most all models. Fun to learn new shoot techniques also



Wow! Those are neat. I haven't been to the SHOT show in 8 years or so. I've missed a lot. They're a little pricy, but I'm sure worth it.
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby Tim McCormack » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:48 pm

In doing a little research I find that my employer of 40 years is offering the Crimson Trace on it's new concealed carry model R51. I haven't seen the gun yet, but I do know it was fashioned after the original model 51 Remington from the 1920's that was WAY ahead of it's time. I've often said that if I had to chooses one gun as my favorite design it would be the old model 51. It was designed by a genius named Peterson including some the earliest ergonomic studies done for a consumer product. There's not one screw in the entire gun. Everything fits together like a Rubic's cube. Without an owner's manual you would be lost to figure out how it comes apart and goes back together.

It's as slender as any gun I know of and can be packed under even the lightest clothes. The only drawback is it was only made in .380 and .32. The new one is made in 9mm+ and should be an ideal carry gun. Here's a link to the catalog page about it. They are supposed to be available this spring.

http://therock.remington.com/firearm_Mo ... wkJgPldWul
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby jjbaker » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:33 pm

Love it!

Finally a completely aviation and seaplane UN-related topic that's interesting and fun to watch. There may be hope, yet!

:beer:

That R51 is a beauty. Watched the video, looks like a blast to shoot and light/ easy to conceal, too!
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby CFII » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:15 pm

The Kel Tec 380 looks even smaller and more streamlined for something in the pull it out, point and pull the trigger category. Looks like they make it in .40 and.44mag too.
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby KeithSmith » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:47 pm

You'll shoot your eye out!

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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby Tim McCormack » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:37 pm

Remington plans to offer the R51 in .40 also. I don't think I'd like to shoot ANY gun that small in .40 or .44. You've got to be able to shoot it comfortably enough to practice a lot with it. I wouldn't even care to shoot Dirty Harry's .44.
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby RKittine » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:32 am

Tim, I have an 8 3/8" Model 29 Smith and except for hunting it is pretty useless. I do have a sholder holster for it, bubt clearing it is pretty clumbsy and it is a bear to shot, though you can shot one effectively with it.

I only shot my Charter Arms Bull Dog once, which was enough. Since I don't carry anymore (too many restrictions these days on where you can go, what you can do etc.) so it is a moot point, but if I did again, I would probably opt for a compact 9mm.

Bob
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby RKittine » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:13 am

Tim, I did not mean to leave Remington out. You can see plenty of Remington Ammo. Remington also supplied free display cases with large orders in those days and there are two of them out of view of this picture to the left. Notice the Telex Headsets in the upper right hand corner. Had to have some pilot supplies too! There are a couple of 1100 D Grades in the one Remington case that came from your shop.

I posted a number of other shots in the store in one of the older Pro Firearms threads, but have not waded back through the history to find them.

Ciao - Bob
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby Tim McCormack » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:09 am

I can see plenty of green boxes. :cheers:
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Re: Totally Seaplane Unrelated

Unread postby RKittine » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:25 am

Yep, Sold more Remington then Winchester or Federal except in Game Loads (Game as in Trap and Skeet) as everyone always wants Winchester AAs for that.

Just picked up a Citori Skeet Grade yesterday. Its a 26" which was the norm for skeet in its day, while today people are shooting with barrels as long as 32" for the longer sight radius, but it is in excellent shape, has an adjustable comb, which was nicely done and probably cost between $300.00 and 400.00 plus shipping and it was Magnaported which probablty was another $60.00 - $100.oo plus shipping. In a Browning Hard Case all for $500.00. Might have a set of screw-ins installed as it is choked SKT / SKT, but would be an interesting bird gun too.

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