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ATC Privatization & Forum + Print Advertising

Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:20 am
by jjbaker
Thought I'd share this here, for the peanut eating gallery...

Reference Thread/ Post by Bob Kittine

Having sold print advertising, I find that people who prefer to advertise in print media vs. online simply didn't get the memo.
Same with people who subscribe to Email Groups, or printed Newsletters.

For example, take the Seaplane Pilots Associations print magazine which cycles every 2 months, reaching some 5000 households.
I base that on the fact that there are no verified and published numbers for the membership count within SPA.

That's 2500 households per month approximately our weekly visitor count on the forum.
The forum is well sub-par to in reach.

Arguments against print:

1. Out of 5000 households, at the very best, 3000 are actively reading the whole magazine.
2. Out of 3000 active readers, 30 are currently in the market or orientating towards any given product advertised.
2.a. Out of the 30, only 10 even see the content of the advertising, most people blend that out completely.
2.b. Out of the 10 who do see it only 2, maybe 3 will understand the ad and actually take action.
3. Out of the famous last 3, one will fire up their Commodore 64 and try to get online, but then mistype the email address or website.

This is absolutely exaggerated, however it is print advertising in a nutshell. Selling it is a PAIN IN THE ASS. Its a PITA so much so that I just smiled while turning down a new job being the advertising sales manager for a aviation publishing house in southern Germany.

Conversion rates (Views to Sales) = Lets NOT talk about it. Customers are extremely expensive in print advertising.

The prospective customer base is primarily out of the market, often no longer flying, renewing their membership solely for the magazine or because they have always had that membership. Habituated repeat customer, completely out of the loop on anything, not a dollar in conversions if tried. "Feel good having done something" membership.

Its best to inquire and get a quote for advertising in the magazine, buy it and then find out how much each (active buyer) views you generate.
I recommend to my consulting customers (media consulting is something I do) to put a print ad, calculate your all in expense, then measure your related sales.
In some cases a single conversion carried a cost of $1000 dollars to even generate it. In car sales, each customer through the door is an UP. You need to monitor WHY they are coming and what triggered them to come in. This requires a level of business thinking that simply isn't present outside of the largest matador companies like Jeppesen, Garmin, Boeing, Airbus and ...

Many seaplane related businesses are a 1/10 on email inquiries, a 0/10 on website generated traffic and a bare 3/10 in terms of customer service and sales skill. 90% of the companies I have dealt with are a straight 0/10 on pre-sales followup. It is what it is.

You quickly land in the online world after looking at the numbers.

Online stuff ain't easy either...

80% of online advertising is blocked through various adblockers and that is the case for EVERY website, independent of what its owner or advertising sales fuzzy tells you. On this forum mobile users (65%) do not see advertising at all. Many websites in aviation are not responsive, iow's they reach a fraction of their potential to start with.

We do get sponsorship requests here on the forum, primarily from float dock manufacturers. They appear in groups, iow., one of them inquires on ads and a few days or weeks later the other inquires on advertising. Rates are always to high, I have quoted anywhere between 100 and 5000 Dollars per year. Doesn't matter, you're dealing with COMPLETE deadbeats. Besides, you always run the risk of being censored by advertisers.

The fun really starts when you start working with something like

Here I can offer ADVERTORIALS, and banners if the price is right. If I'd like to, I could deny access to anyone who blocks advertising or sell access.

Reach far succeeds that of the forum and probably quadruples the reach of the SPA Waterflying Magazine. The quality of reader is higher, you have people looking for luxury items, expensive vacations, cars, we get found on Google by the use of several thousand keywords, only 20% of the traffic comes through Facebook. We (Chris, Sky and I) use about 5% of the sites SEO capacity and still reach is through the roof, worldwide and solid. Offering free classifieds doesn't work at all, so its going away. Pictures are "so so" as people don't seem to understand that publishing a picture that's already all over Facebook is simply not interesting to anybody.

Recent inquiries include two real estate brokers, a float dock manufacturer and there are talks with a float manufacturer as well as a few aircraft manufacturers.

Things are looking very well on despite having revealed that Jason J. Baker (the terrible bad guy from Maine) has something to do with it. The magazine has restored some of my passion and interest in this kind of flying and it allows me to pay editorial attention to the people who make stuff happen, instead of watching from the sidelines and barking. That's where my focus is, online website wise...

Re: ATC Privatization & Forum + Print Advertising

Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:27 am
by RKittine
There are still tons of print ads out there, whether or not they sell anything. Just think of what Sporty's sends out in printed catalogues while active on the web as with Aircraft Spruce, Univiar etc. etc.

The point was about membership and those that pay for it.


Re: ATC Privatization & Forum + Print Advertising

Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:41 pm
by jjbaker
Only the fewest of the few do.

Re: ATC Privatization & Forum + Print Advertising

Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:36 am
by RKittine
Kind of like the Marine's!

Re: ATC Privatization & Forum + Print Advertising

Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:44 am
by jjbaker
Only those who have pushed the Donate button can relate. Its definitely a extremely exclusive club we have here. Aside from Glenn, there's only the most professional characters left.

Re: ATC Privatization & Forum + Print Advertising

Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:33 pm
by KlausNW
You misunderstand advertising. Companies do not advertise in order to get a return on the dollar.

There's lots of news sites and tv channels ads that nobody watches or ever sees because of ad-blockers and gizmos that remove the ads. Companies are advertising on these specific media as insurance. Buying ad space can be a tax perk and the media mafia will write stories about your company in a positive. Those businesses that decide that advertising is not a good return on the dollar will be subject to negative reporting.

I can tell you this as an absolute. Especially in aviation. If an airline pays big bucks to CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS and the others, then the unruly costumer is an idiot and there is nothing to see here, no story, no video release... If the airline decides that the Main Stream Media (MSM) does not deserve they're advertising dollar, a video is released and played over and over again until the airline pays the MSM extortion.

Jason, it's time we threaten to break our members legs if they don't contribute to the cause. :trying: :Mr.Money:

Re: ATC Privatization & Forum + Print Advertising

Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:22 pm
by RKittine
I have seen that happen Klaus on a regular basis. Magazines almost never say anything negative when they are writing about their advertisers. Found that out in Skin Dive Magazine over a lot of years of Scuba diving. Decades ago I went to Bimini Diving and Stayed at Browns. I had ready a travel report in Skin Diver about it and they praised the operations. Needless to say it was truly the pits. I then subscribed to a Divers Newsletter, that was expensive, but had no advertisers, but solicited reviews from travel professionals as well as other divers. I remember looking up Browns and the top of the rating was "Sub Ghetto". Have found that in other markets like Skiing, etc.


Re: ATC Privatization & Forum + Print Advertising

Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:27 pm
by jjbaker
Here, my friends is reality about donations on

The truth will set you free, but first it will hurt you a little...

Re: ATC Privatization & Forum + Print Advertising

Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:29 pm
by KlausNW
The truth hurts doesn't it?

Re: ATC Privatization & Forum + Print Advertising

Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:17 pm
by jjbaker
Doesn't hurt me one bit. ;-)