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Pilot Shortage Solutions?

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Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby KlausNW » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:21 pm

Seaplane Magazine article: http://seaplanemagazine.com/2017/09/17/the-european-pilot-shortage-is-real/

This pilot shortage is getting worst everyday and very few of the "experts" are doing much about it.

Young ambitious potential pilots are not encouraged or see the positive to spending tens of thousands of dollars on flight training. They have little desire for a career flying from hotel to hotel as an airline crew member. They need better incentives.

While the aviation media continues to ignore FAA part 135 operations all across this country and around the world, they're happening anyway. The pilot shortage will be solved and the 1500 hour rule will be irrelevant but, we need to get the stories out to the elementary school age students. Stories telling the lifestyle, travel and adventure experienced by the single pilot aircraft operators. Taking food, water and supplies into people cutoff from roads and flying the injured out. Flying passengers to and from family and vacations. Over flying traffic jams and the hassles of everyday traffic while delivering commerce in a timely and efficient manner. Being payed to go Sight Seeing. At the end of the day most FAA part 135 pilots come home to they're own bed, wife and kids.

I believe the incentive that will bring the Aviation Industry back from near extinction is the Air-Taxi and charter pilot lifestyle. I'm curious, did you get into aviation to become a button pushing airline pilot or to soar among the eagles?

My talents are not in literature. I'm bringing this up here because many of you are writers and story tellers. Over the last year I have had a number of discussions with young able people. They have told me why they don't want to be pilots, they describe the airline pilot's world. Young adults believe being a pilot is a difficult non-rewarding career. They repeat the canned statements about poor pay and poor treatment by the airlines. Once I show them first hand how an Air-Taxi operates they completely reevaluate the prospect of flying.
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby BGH » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:14 pm

My dad spent the last 4 years of his military life on Boeing’s Vertols in search & rescue so my first thoughts were to become a rotary wing pilot so I went out to YVR & spoke to a training rep for Okanogan Helicopters I think it was - he told me that if I gave him $28,000 cdn & 3 months of my life I would be a brand new pilot in an economy where very experienced pilots were unemployed.He suggested I get my fixed wing license & go far enough to get my ATR & then cross over.
Got my private,then single engine land & sea & bought a cessna 185 because I couldn’t rent anything.Fast forward from 1981 to 1990 where my now commercial license has me training a few new pilots the art of float flying & checking them out in the school’s 185.During this time I found out that the back seat friend was the chief pilot for a local float operation when he offered me a right seat job in the twotter to start the very day I had my multi rating -starting wage of $16,000 & should I make captain I would receive $32,000.I told him that I was making &48,000 on unemployment- his answer was that I would really have to want it then because that’s what the job paid.
My problem was that I started with a very good paying job so I gave up my dreams to fly for a living to pay my bills.
Although I don’t fly for a living I have been gifted with the skills to fly in the bush & mountains on floats so when I hear someone slag the little floatplane operators I tell them what an average day is & the pay is much better now as well - I do agree that you really have to want it though.

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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby cubdriver2 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:48 am

Have a 40+ friend who quit 100k+ finance job in july because he hated it. He flys TW, skis and floats with us, CFI and a really good pilot. Went to Texas in mid Aug with American and got his ATP and did his first real landing in an RJ this afternoon. 2 kids in high school but had their collage money saved when he quit. Took big balls to do it but he's happy and smart and the money is better now then a few years ago and the money will come in a few years. Really proud of him.

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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby RKittine » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:18 am

I have enough hours of Part 135 operations to know that depending on the operator, it can be just as bad. My Part 121 time was short lived but more rewarding in the late 60s and I ended up medically retired, which is even a positive today. In those days 1,500 hours was not needed, but 1,100 was and an ATR a rating on your commercial license, the for-runner of the ATP.

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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby jjbaker » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:23 pm

First: This would have perfectly qualified for a guest editorial on Seaplanemagazine.com - no Literature degrees are required.
If a unqualified an useless dumbo like me gets articles out, many of you could too, especially you, Klaus.

Second: As far as the airlines go, I could not give less of a crap about how they fill their pilot needs. Doesn't matter one bit. The airline business is in direct opposition of GA & Business Aviation and henceforth the ENEMY. I wish them pest and cholera, no employees and the worst financial future possible. Many fat and angry passengers, media and social media shit storms and generally terrible, upset, stinking and stupid customers, mixed with mean and bad pilots.

Third: I think in order to overcome any perceived pilot shortage, we first need to stop fighting our own people tooth to nail at every turn. Then we need to entirely change our way of thinking in how today's society unfortunately functions. By and large we see instant gratification kids who are used to being special and getting what they want, when they want it, as they want it. 95% of youth is useless and misplaced when not in front of the screen of a smart device. Mix that with academic nonperformance, no child left behind, "dance your feelings in the sand and draw a cat onto the window with the last mucus discharge from your nose" style education... not sure. How do you make that into a pilot?!

We object to and refuse everything new and we stonewall progress at every turn. We don't value other peoples time and effort, one bit.
Nothing is supposed to touch the holiest of the holy status quo. Our industry (U.S. primarily, other countries are more awake and aware) is misrepresented by useless large and small associations which are further dividing the already existing pilot population by being elitists and focused on exclusivity.

We're the smallest and most ineffectively promoted little exclusive club in the world and we would rather die than change our ways.

Its definitely worse than I ever thought it could be.

The trip to Berlin was a good experience. There's some people in this industry who do what they can to open the gates. Far too few, though. Interest is there, but the career pushes many away by being just too exclusive and too much of a close nit group.

My goal to be there wasn't because I wanted to highlight the airlines needs, but to bring out that in order to become a 135/ 91 corporate pilot or seaplane captain, you will more than likely need some sort of training that goes beyond the IMAPILOTTOO App on 90% of the I-Phones. These days, you chances to get into the industry are better than they used to be. I would still know how to prevent my own child (if I had one) from pursuing flying or aviation as a career.
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby cubdriver2 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:44 pm

Pilot shortage? Can't they just hire some taller people?

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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby KlausNW » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:36 pm

I had to modify the Beaver rudder pedals and the pilot carried special seat cushions around with their headset. Every time you where about to jump in a plane you had to stop and check the seat location. I don't know how many times I hit my head and knees. Definitely a problem.
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby KlausNW » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:29 pm

Jason, don't be such an optimist.
:rain: :rain: :rain:
:trying:

I know you have plenty of things to do other than call various Aviators and do pilot stories. When we do write and talk aviation to the non-aviation public though, we need to describe the other-than-airline part of aviation. The more I watch and study the industry the more that aviation's collapse is coming down from "the airline career is the only option" attitude.

The airlines have taken over the TV set and every other media outlet. The airlines have very little resistance when they lobby for regulation change. Unlike many, I don't have any negative emotions when it comes to the airlines. The airlines are not evil they just have the self-serving big bucks. The airlines are just another branch on the big "Aviation Tree".

The "Aviation Tree" has a lot of branches with more sprouting all the time. The Remote Control (RC) hobbyist twig has become a major branch in what seems like overnight. The Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) has capitalized on digital stabilization and is flourishing. You have the Helicopter branch, General Aviation branch, Corporate branch, Medivac, Missionary, Commuter, Charter, Air-Taxi, Cargo, Military, Fire, Boarder Control, Wildlife Survey and many other branches. We have all these different branches, then you get in an aviation discussion with a young person and they describe aviation from the perspective of the airlines. Even the different non-profit General Aviation groups (AOPA, EAA, SPA, NCAA, AEA, WPA, WSPA and others) discuss most topics from the perspective on how the airlines maybe effected and what they desire. The airlines are the big elephant dancing in the tree and he's breaking limbs off at a record pace.
:elephant:

My suggestion for an Aviation revitalization program: Find avenues of communication with the pre-teen age group. Expose all the other branches of Aviation and put the big elephant back into perspective. We have discussed aviation pay and opportunity here on this forum. The topic always ended up on how poorly the airlines treat employees. The only pay scale that ever comes forward is the airline and commuter's scale. We all need to break that mind set. There's a lot of great paying aviation jobs that don't require staying in a different hotel room every night.
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby RKittine » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:53 am

Jason, I can't understand why you held back your feelings so much, please say what you are really thinking!

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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby jjbaker » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:13 am

I know you have plenty of things to do other than call various Aviators and do pilot stories.


Sorry, Klaus. That's completely wrong. I would love (LOVE!) to do nothing else than call various aviators and do pilot stories. I'd do that all day long if I didn't have to pay bills and enjoyed working for free. Did you know that many of (y)our colleagues could send us tons of articles, but then don't?

There are good news. First community sponsor on Seaplanemagazine.com as of yesterday. Russian company SeaBear Aircraft!
http://seaplanemagazine.com/2017/12/01/ ... -com-2018/
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby RKittine » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:15 am

Better be careful J.J. it might be a way for the Russians to Hack into American Seaplane Owners account or brain wash them about Trump. But in till that happens, congratulations. :beer:

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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby jjbaker » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:32 pm

RKittine wrote:Better be careful J.J. it might be a way for the Russians to Hack into American Seaplane Owners account or brain wash them about Trump. But in till that happens, congratulations. :beer:

Bob


These are fine people and they have invited me to come fly the plane and get to know the team.
Very amusing to see a Russian company step up to the plate before and ahead of all the U.S. American and other international companies.

:acute:
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby KeithSmith » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:03 pm

KlausNW wrote:I don't know how many times I hit my head and knees. Definitely a problem.

I often said there should be a rule that whoever flew the aircraft last should have to leave a note with their name on it. I can't begin to count the number of times I've heard "who the heck flew this thing last" as seat adjustments are done.
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby jjbaker » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:07 pm

Look at something nice!

http://seaplanemagazine.com/2017/12/03/ ... -ballpark/

One of Glenn's beautiful pictures made the headlines again, like many before. Wish you guys would send some nice shots!
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby RKittine » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:35 pm

Glenn does get some superb shots. Now the magazine just needs a modification to Seaplane and Ski Magazine as the weather is finally turning.

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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby jjbaker » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:48 pm

I've already have some shots of planes on ski's. Hit me anytime.
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby KlausNW » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:46 am

Airlines battle growing pilot shortage that could reach crisis levels in a few years

http://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2017/12/20/airlines-battle-growing-pilot-shortage-that-could-reach-crisis-levels-in-few-years.html

By Kelly David Burke

December 20, 2017
It's a great time to be studying to be pilot. Just ask Madison Wolf who has only a year of training left at the Metro State University of Denver.

"I've seen even just in the few years that I've been at it they've been offering more and more money,” Wolf said. “They're just trying to get as many people as they can."

That's because a shortage of pilots is already hitting some sectors of the industry, mostly small regional airlines and ultra-low cost carriers.

Aviation analyst Mike Boyd says the major airlines are only just beginning to feel the pinch.

"There are restrictions, if you will, on how many pilots there are but it hasn't really hit home yet,” Boyd said. “The real hit's going to be in the next three to five years."

The Boeing Pilot Outlook predicts a need for 117,000 new pilots between 2017 and 2036 in North America alone. Worldwide, the demand for new pilots will be an astounding 637,000 during the same period.

"I see the pilot shortage myself," Wolf said. "We're so short on instructors sometimes. Every few months the regional airlines kind of come through and sweep out all the qualified instructors."

MSU's Kevin Kuhlmann, associate chair of the Aviation and Aerospace Science Department, said airlines are going to aviation schools for new hires because they have few other choices.

"The regional carriers have started to enter into agreements with Collegiate Aviation Programs and entice students to come on board during their academic career,” Kuhlmann said. “These kind of opportunities were not available five or more years ago."

Kuhlmann said the major airlines have plans to do the same – recruit directly from universities instead of hiring from regional airlines or the military, both of which are trying to keep their own pilots from leaving.

Scott Frank just graduated from MSU and has already been tapped for an opportunity with a major airline.

"I do have the United internship that's due to start in the spring. I can pretty much skip that regional area and just go straight to United," he said.

Many, like Boyd, blame Washington for the dearth of qualified pilots. They cite the 2009 crash of Colgan Air Flight 3407 near Buffalo, which the National Transportation Safety Board blamed, in part, on pilot error.

Congress then upped the flying hours pilots needed to qualify to fly commercially from 250 to 1,500.

"That sounds good," Boyd admits. "Politicians love it and they get all upset if you try to change it. But the fact is that wouldn't have prevented that crash because both the pilots (on the Colgan flight) had more than that."

The Air Line Pilots Association, International says the 1,500-hour rule must stay.

"We shouldn't be addressing a safety regulation to mitigate a commercial market problem," according to the association’s president, Capt. Tim Canoll.

ALPA also denies there is a shortage of qualified pilots to begin with, citing Federal Aviation Administration statistics that show 9,520 new pilots received their Airline Transport Certificates in 2016, qualifying them to fly large aircrafts used by major airlines.

The union compares that number to another from Future & Active Pilot Advisors, which shows the major airlines hired only 4,113 new pilots in 2016.

"There are twice as many pilots as there are jobs," Canoll said. "Those having trouble attracting that pilot to the job are the ones who aren't providing a living wage, a good work-life balance, a career progression and a good balance in benefits."

Most agree that something needs to change.
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby RKittine » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:58 am

When I started flying Part 121 there were no women flying with any of the majors and my company had just hired who I believe was the first African American male pilot. Those discriminations are long gone. The issues in the U.S. include, a terrible way to get new pilots trained from zero time as well as terrible pay.

I was lucky enough to get to be part of a trial that the carrier I went to work for tried in 1967. Considered everyone in the program as zero time and took us all through The Commercial and ATR (Wasn't an ATP in those days, an Airline Transport Rating on the Commercial Pilots Certificate) included 300 hours of Beech 18 time flying the mail for free and over 500 hours of Turbo Prop time in a Beech 99 and then right into the right seat of a 727 by passing the FE position. My training cost me nothing. I was in the right place at the right time and my best friend in High School's father was the Senior VP of In Flight Services, who got me into the program. His son wanted to be a doctor.

They never tried it again.

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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby KlausNW » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:04 am

Bob, the aircraft 50 years ago still required quite a bit of systems knowledge. I work with several pilots that have learned to fly at accelerated training school in the past 30 years and they are tested heavily on systems. There is a big difference between knowing and doing. When you practice your training by having problems then figuring solutions or work-arounds in real life situations it makes you study even harder.

As a Mechanic, I have gone up on a lot of troubleshooting flights. Many times the issues are simple but the pilot's practical knowledge is not good. I believe, 'Operator Error' has become a bigger problem now then 20 years ago. Pilot's will say: "I'm not a mechanic, I just know how to fly". One of those "pilot's" flew around hard IFR with one alternator for 20 hours or more until total electrical failure. His report to the NTSB/FAA blamed the maintenance practices of the company. When we asked him if he ever pushed the volt/amp gauge button to check the other alternator he didn't know what we where talking about.
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby RKittine » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:31 pm

Totally agree Kraus. My only point is that there is not as much incentive in the U.S. to pay $30,000 or more for flight training, then sit next to a newbie for a few thousand hours to make peanuts and then finally get on with a regional to get to the majors and hope you don't get furloughed and make a permanent seniority number. Most European majors start training in pairs immediately with emphasis on both systems and crew coordination.

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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby KlausNW » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:42 pm

Thanks for bringing up the steps required to become a highly paid airline pilot. I'm on a mission to 'spread the word' about the "NON-AIRLINE" or as one guy put it, the "non-TSA" Aviation.

We are so inundated by airline, airline, airline... as the only Aviation career choice. So, I'm educating potential pilots to the other side of Aviation:
Air-Taxi
Charter
Freight
Instruction
Fire Fighting
Sight Seeing
Aerial Mapping
Crop Dusting
Medical Support (MedeVac)
Corporate
Military
Heli Sling-Load
Banner Towing
Sky Diving
Glider Towing
Missionary
Test Pilot
Law Enforcement
Wildlife Surveillance
Search & Rescue
Aerobatics
Racing
Expedition
Geological Survey
Heli-Skiing
Forestry
Pipeline Patrol
Demonstration/Sales
Relocate / Ferry
Hurricane / Weather
Air Ship / Blimp
Hot Air Balloon

Please add more commercial Aviation opportunities to this list.

Many of these jobs may not be full paying careers but they are ways to get someone else to feed your flying addiction.

I have never wanted to live in hotels here there and everywhere. I like coming home most evenings to the same woman. Many of my pilot friends that entered the airline industry have to request a visit to see their children.

There's a lot of Aviators that have and had a satisfying career in Aviation without the big 800 lbs. guerrilla.
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby jjbaker » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:18 am

I would not be opposed to write an article with a list of non TSA aviation careers together with you. The very reason to cover the PCL event was to point potential future career aviators to a real shortage. The airline shortage is real!

At least when it comes to General & Business Aviation the need for staff must be severely limited, though. I offer job ads (aviation/ pilots/ mechanics/ dockhands) at extremely low pricing and have received exactly ONE listing that wasn't paid for. When I offered to renew it, no response.

There still seem to be many more pilots than jobs, otherwise I could not keep up with listing jobs every day.

...
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby KlausNW » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:47 am

I'm sorry that I must be an apologist for the Non-TSA aviation world... BUT...,

These folks get up before daybreak drink a pot of coffee and start pre-flighting while trying not to over load their aircraft too bad. Next the passengers show up. Before you know it you're throwing freight, arguing with controllers and looking through clouds for a landmark that you recognize. By the end of the day you just want to forget the problems of the world or a pilot shortage. The less people there is to hire the more hats you have to wear. The small business world folks don't have the time or skill set to solve a problem as massive as a personnel shortage. The only advertising I personally ever approved was created by the media outlet (phone book) that produced it. I know that people in the media world think we sit around all day contriving our next big advertising campaign but, we're working on shoe string budgets and have absolutely no idea how to present ourselves. The bank calls every week or more threatening to 'shut ya down', so you tighten your belt even more instead of advertising and expanding.

Does it make sense that pilots, mechanics and dispatchers are ignorant to mass social communications? People who do advertising and public communications understand what offense people and what is acceptable. We (I'm speaking for a very very large percentage) aviators want to aviate... fix and fly.

Now that I said all that. I'm one of the few that is a little willing to be thrown to the wolves and turn things around. Locally I'm trying to break through the financial censorship barriers and spread the word. As I'm learning, folks in the media are very money hungry and won't let anyone present any topic until they see the ca$h $$$. For example: spoke to a local small town business journal that probably has two dozen readers. They listen to me speak about my aviation concerns and ideas then asked: "what's in it for me?"

I believe in learning from my mistakes and experiences. Don't give in and don't give up be a "proud white privileged". I'm moving forward with originating campaigns and having tee-shirt sales and even bake sales if I have too. Acquire enough money to buy advertising in the local media. Putting an international article out that speaks of what the non-TSA aviation has to offer is a HUGE undertaking. People are going to fall back on it and use it to justify their pro-aviation argument.

Did I mention, that if you are willing to write such an article it would be the first and only? No other aviation media news outlet has the courage. They rely on the all mighty airline dollar and would never print a single word that may offend the great almighty airline dollar. As I've learned and so have you, don't bite that big hand that feeds you.... Narrative... airline good, GA bad, privatize airspace and make evil GA pay for it. Evil GA are mosquitos.

Do you think we can do a non-TSA aviation article justice?

:yessir:
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby KlausNW » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:11 am

Correction:
Narrative... Evil rich capitalist pig General Aviation users are filthy rich jet setting mosquitoes. ... and....All the evil filthy rich GA users just got an apocalyptic tax cut. and ... and .... they're all filthy rich racist white privileged.

P.S. !!!airlines good!!!!
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Re: Pilot Shortage Solutions?

Unread postby jjbaker » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:38 am

Bring it. None of the companies we target for advertising have anything to do with the airlines. I have never once bent to advertising dollars and wont start doing it now.

You have my email. Send it.
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