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The Floatplane Dream

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The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:11 pm

Hey folks

I am remiss for not posting much here. I do visit the site often but also at times don't feel I have much to offer. I do not have hundreds of hours on floats, nor do I purport to be an expert on much of anything. But perhaps if I post a little of my plans, my plane project, and goals it might give someone a lift (or a laugh) and a little encouragement.
This was my last Super Cub.

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We do get a little snow up here in Illinois. The floats were straight Baumanns. I REALLY liked the floats. Straights perform so much better than amphibs but obviously they have their limitations. In the Spring of 2011 I was heading to Alaska and flipped the airplane in the Clark Fork River in Northern Montana. The airplane was destroyed so I am building another Super Cub and Lord willing will finish that trip, and many more, on floats.

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This was the instrument panel in the last Cub. Yea, it is a sacrilege but it was LIGHT and COMPLETE. It is a little hard to see but hanging off the mixture knob on the left is a trash bag. You know it is a long day in the saddle when you have a trash bag hanging in the cockpit. ;)

I will try to post a little here and now to keep you up on what is going on.

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The start of a new project. Never give up, never quit. You have to go for your dreams.

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This is the new interior

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More interior

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Beginnings of the new panel

I will stop for now but I will try to add to this now and then hopefully finishing with a trip up North report

Bill
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby CFII » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:00 pm

Good to hear from you, nice project too.
Are all your instruments certificated and do you have an A&P sign off your work? It would be helpful for others to know more about how the last plane was destroyed.
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:47 pm

I have kinda tried to forget the whole thing ( I am not seeking fame or notoriety) but there may (remote possibility) be some value in the write up, so......

There is a blue line across the top of each post. On the right of that blue band is a number, each post is numbered. This link will take you to the correct page, scroll down to post #146 and you will find an "after accident" report that might have something you can use.

http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthrea ... post504727

The first Cub shown above was an experimental kit built from Nick Smith in Canada. It took me six years to build it. Nick Smith eventually sold his kit company to Backcountry Cubs. The kit I am now building is from Javron http://javroninc.com/index.cfm/pageid/42 Even though it will be pretty highly modified it is still pretty much a Super Cub. It is not an ultralight, Light Sport, Etc. I will have an 0-360 for power, an empty weight under 1100 pds (I hope), a gross weight at 2200pds and thus a useful load of 1100 pounds.

Since it is experimental the instruments do not have to be certified, thus much greater innovation and lower cost.

Bill
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby jjbaker » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:59 pm

A lot of people (none of whom are claiming to be experts) and readers on this forum would have appreciated and could have learned a great deal from your account of this accident, Bill.
By the way, all you have to do is click on the post number itself in the forum and it will create a link to be pasted to just that post and those following it. You can do the same on our forum, by clicking on the little triangular circly thing in front of every post and it does the same thing...

Beautiful new project.
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby Tim McCormack » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:07 pm

I do visit the site often but also at times don't feel I have much to offer. I do not have hundreds of hours on floats, nor do I purport to be an expert on much of anything.


Bill, You'll fit right in here. We're all in that boat, except for maybe Glenn. I wish more people would realize that and jump in. ANY experience you've had, whether it's been flying or building, will be welcome fodder on this forum.

Thanks for jumping in!! :cheers:
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby RKittine » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:22 pm

Hey Bill, Beautiful plane and nice pictures. It is nice having another poster and prospective. Post away. Look forward to your input. Bob
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby CFII » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:47 pm

Thanks Again Bill,

Excellent write-up and it has already helped many, by re-enforceing some safety proceedures such as, WEAR the life jacket!

About 80 yards apart, we spotted not one but TWO, 5" dia., sharp!, stubby, waterlogged limbs sticking up only about 4" out of the cold, gray water, in the step-speed area of the lake last week. Hard to make a better seaplane killer if you tried....
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby cubdriver2 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:21 am

Thanks for the update Bill.

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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby gear » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:12 pm

Bill - I read the entire thread on the link you provided. I appreciate you posting this here and sharing your story. The event sure makes you think of being prepared in the event of an accident.

Thanks again for posting.

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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby Rajay » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:18 am

Hi Bill,

It's great to have you share your story and experiences. I was just kinda curious - I noticed that you're going a slightly different route with the panel in your newest Cub project. Could you comment about that? What did you like or dislike about the previous Dynon panel and what are you using in the new one and why?

Thanks.

-Dave
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby Tim McCormack » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:52 pm

I've been trying, but I can't find the second half of Bill's story. WOW is all I can say so far.
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:38 pm

Try this link for the other half

http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthrea ... post504728

Re the Panel - I really liked the first panel but technology has already made it obsolete. The old panel basically had 5 parts
1 - Engine instruments
2 - Flight instruments
3 - GPS
4 - Radio
5 - Transponder

The new panel combines the flight and engine instruments in one unit so I was able to reduce the panel - read that as more simple and lighter. In fact the Dynon Skyview combines the flight, engine, transponder and GPS in one display so you could get your panel down to just 2 items. I prefer the Garmin GPS so that also drove the panel a little.

Here is a link to a thread on the trip I was trying to make. It has some planning info, and links to videos etc

http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthrea ... ska+floats

Thanks for the kind words folks

Bill
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:40 pm

Hi Folks

I know it has been a long time since I have been on this forum, and I hope you will welcome me back. I was pretty busy building my dream and I invested most of my internet time, posting on my thread "Building a Javron Cub" over on Supercub.org. I had to cut down( and out) just about all my other internet time in order to focus on one thing and get it done. Now that it is done I hope to renew my membership here and become active. Here are a few photos of the finished project. I have about 30 hours on the floats now and about 130 hrs total on the airplane. I installed the floats using a simple manual pump only and so far it has been working great. There is full info over on SC.org in my thread for those who might be interested. Wipline 2100 Amphibs.

Bill


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Photo by Brad Thrornburg


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Photo by Jay DeRosier - Javron


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Photo by Brad Thornburg


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Photo by Brad Thornburg


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Photo by Buck
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby cubdriver2 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:09 pm

You thought Warner Hatz and off airport Super cubs were fun, just wait. Welcome back buddy.

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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby KlausNW » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:45 am

Congratulations!! She's a beauty.
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby TriPacer » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:29 pm

Very nice!!!
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby Stevesbrother » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 pm

BEAUTIFUL! Congratulations! More pics?
"Still dreaming and hoping to die young at heart with a bar room story that will close the place"
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby gear » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:42 pm

Really nice to have you back and enjoyed the pics - thank-you for posting!

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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:24 pm

Thanks for the kind words. More pictures.


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Photo by Buck. I like the prop disc at this shutter speed but unfortunately it does not enlarge very well.


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Taxi out for first flight. June 2 this year.


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One float workout.


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Inst panel


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Parked at Dewey Moore strip in Idaho


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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby gear » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:24 am

That panel is as clean as they come ;-)
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby TriPacer » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:59 pm

Wow I really like that panel! So slick... I kind of wish we could do that to the Force someday, but it'd probably cost more than the plane...
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:02 pm

OK, so I thought I would post a little info on why and how I did the float install. My cub is experimental so that gives me some options that are not available to the certified folks. I like clean, simple, and light weight. Some folks have asked, well what if the gear mechanism fails? It seems to me that .......if it fails down (it has over center locking) DON"T land in the water. Find a runway. If it fails retracted, either land in grass, or land in the water and figure it out. Could it fail partial extended? Yes, but it could do that with all the bells and whistles too, or with my "simple" system, it is probably less likely. With the full system there are a LOT of failure points.

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This is all the stuff that normally goes in the Cub for the Amphib floats. Weight around 17 pounds. Electric motor drives a hydraulic pump with a reservoir, lots of limit switches, relays, check valves, pressure relief valves, and a manual back up pump system. It also includes a gear indication system with lots of micro switches and also a gear warning system as well. It is quite sophisticated and works well. But it is pretty complicated.

I tend to go for the light and simple.

So I am going to have a manual pump, valve, and reservoir. And thats all. There will be no back up. If it fails (there is not much to fail) then I will have to land accordingly. Also, I can't envision a situation where I would want to raise and lower the gear more than once per flight. I don't see myself doing a touch and go on the water, then one on land, then back to the water, then back to land etc. You take off, raise the gear, go play in the water, come back, put the gear down and land. So I will manually pump the gear up and down, probably once per flight.
The back up (manual) pump that comes with the Wip float system takes about 100 strokes to raise or lower the gear. That is too many for a primary system. Fine as a back up but not for every flight.


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At the bottom of the photo is the Parker 914 series pump. It takes 25/22 strokes to raise and extend the gear. Above that is the new Parker 910 series. It takes 13/15 strokes to raise and extend the gear. It is about 18 ounces heavier than the 914 series and a little fatter. You can find these on EBay (sometimes) for between 100 and 200 dollars. New they run about 800 dollars.


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This is looking at the front of the seat. The pump is mounted near/on the right front seat leg. The stick is in full deflection and you can see that there is no interference. The pump does have a removable handle. This caused a lot of concern in the Cub community. It has not been a problem so far. If I drop the handle and can't reach it.....well go back to land or water (whatever the gear was last positioned for), land and retrieve the handle. This is not a Boeing-747, I am not flying commercial, or combat. It is NOT that big of a deal.


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There are only three parts to my system. A pump - Parker 910, a valve - Whitey 40 Series 1/8"FNPT 1 piece 4 way ball valve SS-43YF2.
and a reservoir - Canton Racing Products #80-207 Racer Catch Tank. Thats all!! No relays, no over pressure valves, no micro switches, no electric pumps, no gear indicating or warning system. Look out the window and SEE where the gear is. Keep it simple. This photo also shows the removable handle.


I have about 60 hours on this system so far, and lots of cycles due to testing and demo flights and it works simple and effective. It takes about 13 strokes to raise the gear and 15 to lower it. There is no speed difference, gear up or down, so no rush to position the gear. Get settled down at cruise, reposition the gear when it is safe and comfortable. Then CHECK IT TEN FRIGGING TIMES!!! I know .....I'm very sensitive to the possibility of landing in water with the gear down. BAD, BAD, BAD. I have some knowledge of this.

So a little info. Hope it helps

Bill
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby KlausNW » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:06 pm

The manual pump only setup is not unusual in Alaska.

I have found the electric pump system to be a maintenance hog and a greater chance of landing with gear in wrong position. Flicking a lever between up and down position can be easily forgotten compared to hand pumping the gear into position. You don't readily forget so quickly what position you put them in last after selecting position lever and then pumping.

Thanks for posting your installation.
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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby cubdriver2 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:57 am

Bill as Lindbegh proved 89 Years ago. KISS

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Re: The Floatplane Dream

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:41 am

Thanks Klaus and Glenn. It might be common up there, but when I was doing it I could not find much help. No one seemed to have any inputs, it felt like I was inventing the wheel. I do like the way it came out.

Klaus - perhaps this summer, if I make it up there as planned, we can meet up. I'll buy lunch.
Glenn - hopefully I will see you at the WAD.

Bill
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