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New floats help please Cessna 206

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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby jjbaker » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:07 pm

Mikey, please note that we don't make money with either of these two float manufacturers here.
IOW's, nobody is getting paid or gaining anything from saying nice things about one particular company, while avoiding to talk about another.
Maybe its just me, but I'd prefer a floats that haven't had a plane mounted UNDERNEATH them.

Even if you get them for $0.00 - these floats are what is preventing your 206 from playing Titanic.
Have you considered to have someone independent look at those floats in person?
I mean, you're talking about planting your expensively rebuilt and reconditioned aircraft on top of those things...

Its hard to play devils advocate on something never seen... but what I wrote above, I'd write to any friend, looking for my "opinion".
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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby Mikey » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:07 am

Hi Guys this is exactly the sort of help I want/ need. It gets me thinking.......


When you say in a few years I'll be ready for better floats do you mean I will have worn them out or want something with better performance?

The real problem I see with the wips is the loss of useful, load, I'm not sure what they will weigh but I'm guessing they will be heavier than the aerocets-any comments?

Will I notice the different hull shapes in different water conditions? Is the Wip better in flatter water and the aerocets in the rough- comments?

But I guess the main thing is the wips fitted will prob all up cost me 20k US and the Aerocets just a touch over 100K US.

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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby KlausNW » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:40 pm

Envy, every time you pull up to a gathering of floatplanes you'll wish you had those guys Aerocets. They don't leak, there lighter, better performers and most of all they have a better retract system.

For $20,000, I would put the Wips on my plane while I save up money for the Aerocets. The Wiplines may be just a bit smoother in rough water but not enough as you'll notice. The engineers at Wipline don't develop short take-off float hulls. If you're gross weight you'll want a good mile plus of no obstacles. We use to change cylinders regularly on the 206 before putting it on Aerocets. After the switch to Aerocets, the take-off runs shortened and the cylinders on the IO-520's lasted much longer.

Edo originally developed the 3500 float. Aerocet tried to redevelop the Edo 3500 and found that there wasn't much to change, so they made them not leak and lighter. About 15 years ago Wipline duplicated the Edo 3500:
http://www.wipaire.com/wipline-floats/3450.php

One more thing, when you do replace the Wiplines, you'll find it very difficult to find a buyer.
:Mr.Money:
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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby Mikey » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:42 pm

Well hold all tickets it's back to plan A, the aerocets.

After lots of research and talking to Wipline I've dodged a bullet on the Wiplines.
They were made 8/1977 and back in those days they had an engine driven hydraulic pump, and no hand emergency pump. The pump that was with these floats and airframe must have been taken by someone when they removed the engine. Wipline can no longer supply that pump ( or parts for it) and doesn't have really any tech support for it these days.

So to continue with these I'd need a new electric pump ( just over 10k US) and a emergency hand pump - it's no longer made and the company that did is no longer in business.
Then if I find both of those, second hand and they are ok, then I'd have to change the gear selector system.
It presently has an electric switch that works to reverse the hydraulic flow, I'd need one that has a valve behind the selector to change the flow direction- again find one or get one from a set of 4000's.
All the above would then need an approval etc.

In the words from Wipline " it's really getting just to complicated"

The only upside is that Wipline has a published service letter to remove all the undercarrge parts and turn them into straight floats, but they would still weigh around 500lb as straights.
I might do that for a little bit, but it's not really what I want.

Keep the advice comming!


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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby KlausNW » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:55 pm

I don't know if this is too late or not or if you're even interested in a set of PK Amphibs.:

http://www.pacificnorthwestflying.com/index.php?topic=12986.msg109194#new

PK D3500A Amphibious Floats. These are the $75,000 current production model PK's with the modern nose gear, improved variable deadrise bottom, and latest hydrobooster design. The floats are pictured with complete 206 stationair upright rigging, and also include another complete spare set of late model uprights.

The electro hydraulic powerpak is in unopened packaging and appears either zero-timed or brand new. Includes a large container of hydraulic lines, annunciator, panel mount gear up / down lever, auxiliary wobble pump, and a box of spares. Original PK documentation is included as well as blueprints and the original brass float pump. We will assist with shipping and delivery to the shipper of your choice.

The floats will fit the Cessna A185E or A185F, Cessna 206 super skywagon or stationair, and Murphy Moose.

Located in Kelowna, BC
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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby Mikey » Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:04 am

Thanks for keeping an eye out for me.
I'm simply not sure, it's another option I guess.
Are they still in production, I thought PK was sold or something, and I'm guessing they will be heavier than the Aerocets, I'm still a bit sold on the aerocets because of the mostly salt water ops I want to do.

If they are 75k new then what are these ones worth?

Thanks
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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby Mikey » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:14 am

Howdy all.

An update on my project.
I visited the Aerocet factory a month or so back and I ordered a set.
They look smick- I guess you will understand that,
They will show up early next year and in the mean time I'm fitting the hydraulic pump and plumbing into the airframe.
So hopefully I'll be going on wheels mid 2016 then I'll put it across to the floats

Mike
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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby gear » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:34 pm

One comment on the Aerocet resale value. When I bought mine (3500's) I looked for used. Very hard to find but if you can, they were going for only 10-20% less than new. That tells you the demand for these floats. I'm not a float expert but have been extremely happy with mine and have never heard anything bad about them.
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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby KlausNW » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:00 am

gear wrote: have never heard anything bad about them.


Well,....there is a couple things....

They get heavier with time. From my best guess, they must absorb water into the foam. It can be 25 to 50 lbs.

The other whining complaint that I have.., the time it takes to patch fiberglass. If a pilot runs up on the rocks and puts a hole in metal floats you just slap some 3M 5200, a piece of aluminum with a handful of rivets and it'll get you through the season. The Aerocet's have a fiberglass curing time that keeps the plane out of the water for nearly 48 hours.

I get tired of sanding, prepping and inhaling the chemicals of fiberglass a little bit more every year. :oops:

But with that said, Take me out fishing off those flat top floats and I'll quit whining.
:fishing: :cheers: :fishing: :beer:
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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby gear » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:56 pm

Klaus - I agree - there is a disadvantage on the patch time - no question, but what are you referring to with the water soaking in the foam? There is no foam in the floats??
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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby KlausNW » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:00 am

Here is some references to the foam sandwich construction of the sides and tops:

http://aerocet.com/products/floats/float-model/aerocet-3500l/

Construction

* No corrosion.
* No rivets mean no rivet leaks.
* Common aerospace E-Glass and simple easy – to – use vinyl ester resin.
* Non – sandwich bottom skin, makes any field repair an easy process.
* High impact sandwich core used on top and sides adds durability and strength.


SERVICE MANUAL AND INSTRUCTIONS FOR CONTINUED AIRWORTHINESS:

http://aerocet.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/A-10032_IR_110513.pdf

Section 5.2

3.2 If damage has occurred where there is sandwich construction involving the core, work each layer separately. Fix either the outside or inside skins. Then cut to fit like core material to replace the damaged core. Bond the core onto the repaired skin using the proper resin and thicker...


I've found references to a compatible foam made by Divinycell as a replacement foam core. Next time you open the float hatch notice that it's nearly 1/2 inch thick.
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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby Mikey » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 am

Hi.
I looked at both aspects.
From memory the hull bottoms are solid glass no foam, the foam is non water obsorbing in theroy also, But yes like any fiberglass boat they would be subject to osmosis if they are left in the water really long term.

Yes there is a curing time for the resin etc, but for smaller , less structural holes I'll just use a piece of alclad, some 1/2 hour PRC, thyacol, semkit etc and a few machine screws, penny washers and nuts.
I'm sure that will get me home ok, then as I'm just a private owner I can take my time with a proper repair.

What I did like was the easy repairs to any chines or corners. If you damage those extrusions on the corners of the metal floats I looked at , to repair it properly would be a huge job.

And I'm going to be salt water almost exclusively, sorry but the less metal the better, despite all the paint and goo for protection all the hard to reach places look like a crossion magnet .


I guess I'm about to learn all about it.

BTW the people at aerocet are by far the best float manufactures I've delt with on this project, and I've delt with most of them now, let's face it, it's a pretty big purchase $ wise, they fully and honestly answered all my questions for almost a year, untill I visited them and ordered them.

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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby gear » Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:25 pm

hmmm - I not seeing this. I looked in my float compartments and don't see any "foam". All looks like fiberglass but maybe I'm still missing something. I did weigh my floats last year - was 2 lbs heavier than spec. I didn't weight them when new, so not sure what there were then. I've had them for about 4 years. My plane doesn't sit in the water now, but it did for my first 3 years.

If I had a working aircraft, I'd likely have aluminum - better for pulling up to rocky shores, dock rash etc. but flying privately and having flown both, I'd much prefer my fiberglass.
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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby Mikey » Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:40 pm

Hi.

They do have foam in the sides and tops, if you feel around you will notice thickness changes where the foam ends, it's about 1/4 inch thick. It's an accepted practice in building boats etc, and it won't ever be a problem.

Talking about pulling up on rocks etc. when I visited the factory, they bond plastic scrape protectors to the rear undersides of the floats in the area forward of the rear bulkhead that has the water rudders mounted to it.
They can make those scrape protectors various sizes, did you get yours enlarged or just stick with the standard ones?
They had a set they were just finishing and they had made them extra long - going 3-4 feet forward.

Mike.
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Re: New floats help please Cessna 206

Unread postby gear » Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:43 pm

I never heard of this option - I assume I have the standard ones. Next time I'm at the hanger, I'll have another look at the compartments again.
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