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Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Technical Questions, Know How, Equipment, Tools......

Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:31 pm

Folks



I am going to put everything I have learned about Wip 2100 floats into one place and thus perhaps help someone else going down this road. This may take several weeks to do, a little at a time, but perhaps someone will benefit along the way.

We will start with the search.

After watching Barnstormers and Trade-a-plane for close to 3 years, I found a set of floats. I have been checking both sites several times a day and twice in the last 3 years a set of Wip 2100A amphibs came up for sale and were gone within a couple of hours, before I could get to a phone. These things just don't come up for sale that often. If you want a set you need to start looking well in advance of when you might want them. They are HARD TO FIND (used). If they do not have SC rigging it can be quite expensive to correct so that narrows the field in a big way. At any rate I found these through Wip, (they were brokering the sale of a Scout on these floats, and they agreed to separate them for me), while there I had a chance to visit with Grant and Amy, a couple of Supercub.org friends, who work there. Got a chance to see Grants Cub project, very nice!, and Amy showed me pictures of her Cub, getting a little wing tank work done. Fun to see both and visit with them. Both are great people.
I think part of the reason I was able to snag these floats is that I saw the ad quickly (within an hour or two after it came out) and the floats were not listed for sale. I called and asked if they would separate. After a lot of hemming and hawing Mike Aune agreed.

The only flaw is a little dock rash on the right float (can you guess which side the door is on?), the left float is perfect. Good enough for me. No corrosion and a lot of the Service Bulletins done, improvements, updates, etc.
Mike Aune and company at Wipaire were/are awesome. Great to deal with.

Yes, I would prefer to be able, and in a position, to operate on straight floats, but at this point in my life that is a really inconvenient, expensive, and time consuming option. If, in the future, I am in a position to go straight floats, I will do so and feel pretty confident I can resell these floats if necessary. One of the reasons I did not go with Clamar or Montana floats is the more limited resale market, as those floats are restricted to experimental aircraft only. I feel very confident I could resell these floats and recover most, if not all, of my investment. This is pretty important when spending this much money.




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This is what they looked like when on the Scout


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Left float - no door so very little time against a dock - is near perfect


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You can see a little dock rash in the right (door side) float.


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Mike Aune from Wip. Excellent guy.


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Put em on a trailer and brought em home.


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Home.


More to follow in a day or two with installation info, overhaul info, etc.


Hope this helps

Bill
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Re: Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:53 am

The following are detail photos of a stock, certified, factory (Wipline) installation.


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Re: Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:56 am

Factory install continued



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Re: Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:59 am

Factory install continued



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Re: Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby Stevesbrother » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:53 pm

Nice shiny and clean! Looks good
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Re: Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby KlausNW » Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:22 pm

Now just keep them looking so clean. Thanks for posting.
Klaus Marx - Piper Pacer Pilot
Juneau, AK & Wenatchee, WA . . . . . . Click on Link Bar to view the 'non-profit' group.
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Re: Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:41 pm

Thank you Gents, but those photos are from a certified Cub (not mine, I'm experimental) with a Wipline factory new install. I just posted them as a reference.
Now I will get to my install...... This is EXPERIMENTAL. YOU CAN"T DO THIS ON A CERTIFIED CUB.



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This is a photo of all the stuff that goes in a certified install.


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It includes having an electrical system (thus the battery). Weight around 17 pounds. Electric motor drives a hydraulic pump with a reservoir, lots of limit switches, relays, check valves, pressure relief valves, and a manual back up pump system. It also includes a gear indication system with lots of micro switches and also a gear warning system as well. It is quite sophisticated and works well. But it is pretty complicated, and heavy.


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This is the system I installed. It includes a manual pump, a valve and a reservoir. That is all. Much lighter and much simpler with far fewer failure points.
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Re: Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:10 pm

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This is a common had pump used in a number of aircraft applications. It is used as a pump for Hyd ski installs, as a back up for some flaps in warbirds, etc. It will work in this application as well. This is a Parker 914 series pump. This pump is a little larger than the Wip unit and it takes 25 pumps to extend the gear and 22 to raise it.


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This was my test set up. You can see the pump mounted on the side of the table, valve is on top of the gallon of Hyd fluid and the can is being used as the reservoir. I measured the fluid going back into the reservoir and what I got was 16 oz goes into the reservoir when extending the gear (this would be the fluid that was in front of the piston)and takes 25 strokes. It dumps 19 oz into the reservoir when retracting the floats and takes 22 strokes. This means the pump is putting out about .75 oz per stroke.

The floats basically have two hyd lines per float. One line pushes fluid behind the piston to push the piston out and extend the gear. The other line is on the front side of the piston and as the piston goes out (extends) the fluid on the front side of the piston is pushed out of the way and back into the reservoir. To raise the gear we reverse the flow of the fluid so that the fluid goes under pressure to the front side of the piston and pushes it back. This then forces the fluid behind the piston back in to the reservoir. The pump has two openings. One supplies fluid to the pump. The other is the high pressure fluid going out. The pump is a double action, meaning that it pumps out when the handle is going down and when the handle is going up. So basically we take fluid from the reservoir and push the piston, when we do so fluid is flowing back into the reservoir at the same rate it is going out.

There is absolutely no doubt when the gear is fully extended or retracted. The pump handle just instantly locks up. You can't move it either up or down. Hydraulic lock because there is fluid on both sides of the piston. Because of this you don't need a pressure gage. You could only over pressurize it if you intentionally massively FORCED it. For the same reason you don't need a relief valve. It operates at about 500 PSI but the lines, pump etc are rated at 1700 to 3000 PSI. So again you will never get there unless you force the pump. The handle takes about 15 pounds max force to move the gear and I'll bet it would take well over a hundred to move it after you hit the stop.

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This is the back up pump used on the Clarmar floats. It takes about 100 strokes to extend or retract the gear. This is to show the size and mounting location of a back up system. The Wip back up is mounted in a similar location and is about the same size and function.


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On the bottom is the Parker 914 series pump. It takes 25/22 strokes to raise and extend the gear. On the top is the new Parker 910 series. It takes 13/15 strokes to raise and extend the gear. It is about 18 ounces heavier than the 914 series and a little fatter.
The specific pump is a Parker 910-6D2BC


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The valve is a "Whitey 40 Series 1/8"FNPT 1 piece 4 way ball valve SS-43YF2."



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Reservoir.....Canton Racing Products #80-207 Racer Catch Tank. It has a fitting at a conical bottom, a side opening for the return line, a vent on top and even a mount tab. Technically we only need about 4 ounces of fluid. Although the cycle uses 19/16 ounces per cycle, as fluid is being drawn from the reservoir it is also going in to the reservoir at the same time. So we really just need the difference of about 3 ounces. BUT I wanted a little extra so if I have (or get) a leak, perhaps I can get the gear to work one more time to get me to a repair place. Nice to have a little extra. This tank holds 16 oz. I would have been happy with 10 to 12 but could not find that size tank. The fittings are 1/4NPT. I got a couple of AN fittings that are 1/4 NPT to AN4 male. By the way......Aircraft Spruce has a very small selection of AN hardware. If you don't see it in that catalog, that does not mean it is not made. So if you want an AN fitting that does a U turn and goes from a weird size to another weird size, it is probably available, just not from AC Spruce. Earls and JEGS are automotive suppliers that have lots of cool stuff. I was kinda naive at the outset, I thought Spruce carried about all the AN hardware there was.

More to follow

Bill
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Re: Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby Paul Jackson » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:13 pm

Let me know if you need any parts or advice on the 2100's. I have had several rebuilt and my mechanic has lots of parts. I would get Wip some pics of the pump set up. Charlie and Bob are huge supporters of the little guy and your work should be noted.

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Re: Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:19 pm

Thank you Paul. I hope you get a chance to fly it sometime. I an just trying to put everything I have learned about these floats in one place to maybe help others. I certainly don't know much about floats but perhaps I can save someone else a little time, money and/or frustration, if they too go down this road. Lots more to add.....it might take a while.

Bill
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Re: Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:16 pm

Folks


One of the problems I encountered when putting these floats on a Supercub was I had no place to mount the water rudder balance cable pulley. I did not weld in a bracket, partly because at that point I was still unsure of what type of floats I would end up owning.


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This is a Wip install. Looks like they found a cross tube under the fabric, slit the fabric, and mounted a single pulley off center. This does not look very attractive to me. Its aysemtrical and looks like an afterthought. But my problem is, I too, had no place to mount the balance cable pulley. The center stringer is not strong enough. So.............



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Here I am looking for a way to mount this pulley.


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I made a pattern like this


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Cut the pattern out of .060 4130. It is slightly offset as you will note that one ear is right on the edge (that goes outside along the longeron, the other ear extends out a little before you bend it up, so that you end up with the ears 1.5 inches apart. Thus you will have a left and right fitting. You could just make the plate 1.5 inches wide, negating a separate right and left sides.
Now bend the ears up and drill holes for AN3 (3/16) bolts 1.5 inches apart to match the eyebolt hole pattern from your currently installed rudder pulley. Drill one of the holes slightly larger to give room for things to fit up. Then drill the ears (or tabs) for 3/16 AN3 bolts.



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This bracket then bolts in under the eye bolts, using the current holes and hardware. Clean, simple and sturdy - it is bolted into a steel plate you had welded in when you got your kit (if you asked for float fittings). I think Airframes is welding in these plates as well when you ask for float fittings. This recessed float fitting mod has become pretty common.


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Now the water rudder balance cable pulley goes in like this.


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And so you have to add an extra pulley, but this is a clean, strong, simple, and attractive way to get your balance cable across. You don't have to slit the fabric and when off floats the bracket comes off and you have a clean fuselage.


Hope this helps

Bill
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Re: Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:16 pm

Folks


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One of the service bulletins that Wip put out was in regards to the float pump out tubes. They were cut straight on the bottom and it seems that it is possible (remote but "possible") for the tube to sit flat against the float bottom so that it could suction seal itself off and not pump out the water.


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So the service bulletin says to shape the bottom of the tube like this so it will not seal itself off.
I made new pump out tubes for my floats to get the tube closer to the bottom of the float (some of my tubes were an 1.5" from the bottom) and also to comply with the SB by reshaping the ends. The tube Wip uses is available from McMaster- Carr. It is part #5181K27 Crack resistant Polyethylene tubing 1/2" ID and 5/8"OD white.


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These are the clamps they use. They are called Snapper Clamps. Here is a link .http://www.hellermanntyton.com/site/...np16/190-00271
Unfortunately I broke one while trying to figure out how too get it off so I needed a replacement. Could not find them ANYWHERE except in bulk (1000 units min order) but Wip has them for a buck a piece. Not bad. At first I did not like them but they have grown on me. Mine are 17 years old and show no signs of embrittlement, wear, fatigue etc. Once clipped on they are REALLY tight and secure.

Aircraft Spruce carries these clamps under the name Herbie clamps. Another source.


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The key to getting these clamps off is to separate the locking parts vertically. Push down on just the outer part with a flat blade screwdriver and they will pop right off. Don't try to pry them open, it won't work. Separate them vertically.


Hope this helps


Bill
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Re: Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:22 pm

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This is my favorite varnish. Stits/Randolph also makes a urethane varnish but I like the epoxy varnish much better. This is by far the best varnish I have found. Great for float locker floorboards, paddles, or pretty much any wood surface you want to protect. Tough, wears well, last a long time, looks great etc. Dries overnight, unlike some varnish products that take days to dry.

Hope this helps

Bill
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Re: Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:30 pm

Folks


Lots of people put some type of floor in the float lockers to keep stuff from getting all jammed up and also to keep it from getting wet. There is always a little water in the lockers and without a floor, anything you put in the locker will get wet. It's a pain in the arse.


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This is what the locker looks like from the factory. No floor.


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I took some aluminum angle stock and screwed it to the bulkheads. Weight about 7.5 oz per locker


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Now you can put some plywood down to get a level floor. Be careful that you keep the floor low so you will have room to put your gas cans in there. If you put the floor in the widest part of the locker (the logical and attractive place to do so) it may be too high and thus cut down on your available space too much.


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I put a couple of nut plates in the angle braces so I could secure the floor boards. You don't want a piece of plywood just banging around in there.


Hope this helps


Bill
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Re: Wipline 2100 Amphibs

Unread postby Bill Rusk » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:47 pm

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This is called the nose gear trolley. The four little black things are called the trolley blocks and they go on the four corners of the trolley and slide in rails to retract and extend the nose gear. These polymer blocks will expand from either hard use (rough strips or rough landings), or from water absorption. But either way they will expand over time and bind up in the rails causing problems down the road. Every annual you need to take this whole assembly apart and check the fit of the blocks. Replace as necessary. The trolley should slide freely.


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The trolley is behind the four bolts and holds the upper part of the white gear leg on.


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As the gear is retracted it goes around the corner, being pulled aft by the hydraulic cylinder (ram/actuator).


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It continues aft until the nose gear is fully retracted.


Hope this helps


Bill
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