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IO550 turbo or supercharged

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IO550 turbo or supercharged

Unread postby Mikey » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:29 am

Hi all
Most likely a question for KlausNW, but is anyone running a cont IO550N with a turbo setup or with a supercharger setup. I'm looking at it for my Cessna 206 project, along with an MT reversible prop.
Likes/dislikes or general ideas please.

Thanks
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Re: IO550 turbo or supercharged

Unread postby KlausNW » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:38 pm

I like the IO-550-N but have no turbo experience. I do know the Lanceair, Columbia now the Cessna 400 and the Cirrus use that engine with and without turbocharging. I think calling around to maintenance shops that specialize in those planes would give me the most insight.

One of the questions I would ask; How many cylinders have you changed on the tuborcharged versus the non-turbo?
Do the engines make it to TBO?

I'll ask the air-taxi operators in Juneau how the engine is working out for them so far. They're non-turbo.
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Re: IO550 turbo or supercharged

Unread postby RKittine » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:48 pm

I have owned a couple of Turbo Cessna 210s. One was an older model without the intercooler and it had a much lower recommended TBO. The other was a last year, 1986 (made in 1985) that had dual intercoolers and went beyond the extended TBO. It also had an automatic waste gate, which insures no over-boost on take off etc.

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Re: IO550 turbo or supercharged

Unread postby Rajay » Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:26 pm

And FYI there is no such thing as a "supercharged" TCM "flat" or horizontally-opposed engine.

While some folks back in the "olden days" sometimes used the term "turbo-supercharged" (including TCM by the way) it has generally fallen into disuse.

A turbocharger is an induction air compressor (more air = more power) driven by an exhaust gas turbine. A supercharger, as in automotive use too*, is a direct-drive, gear or belt driven induction air compressor. Many radial engines have integral superchargers behind their accessory sections driven directly by the back end of the crankshaft. Lycoming built a couple of series of supercharged flat engines too, but a LONG time ago and they are very rare these days. They were the GSO- and IGSO- (meaning Geared, Supercharged, Opposed - and either Fuel Injected or not) 480 and 540 CID engines, and they were typically rated for 340 and 380 hp respectively. They were used on old "bathtub" nacelle Aero Commanders (models 680) T-Bones, Queen Aires, etc. Note too that Lycoming produced non-supercharged versions of the same engines with less power, such as the 270 - 295 hp GO-480 series.

TCM, maker of the 550 series engines, made O-, IO-, TSIO-, and GTSIO-520 series engines (the latter two of which being a "Turbo-Supercharged, Injected, Opposed" engines without and with a Spur-type Gear reduction respectively.) AFAIK there are only IO-, TSIO-, and TSIOL- 550 CID series engines made by TCM. (The last of which is Liquid cooled, but again, that's another rarity.)

P&W R-2800 supercharged radial:

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Supercharged Lycoming engine (supercharger is the round component on the back (right) side of the engine - in between the pressure carb or fuel injection servo as applicable and the accessory section where the starter, generator, etc. are mounted.

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*The automotive supercharger below is the chrome piece in between the carbs and the valve covers (sitting on top of the intake manifold) and it is driven at the top by the belt off of the crankshaft pulley at the bottom with an idler pulley in between. Look familiar? Surely you remember seeing "muscle cars" with engines like this...

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Re: IO550 turbo or supercharged

Unread postby RKittine » Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:45 pm

Yep, the Turbo Charger had to spool up as the exhaust gases increased. Back in the 60s, most of the Superchargers used on dragsters, where the ones from big truck engines and commonly called "Blowers".
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Re: IO550 turbo or supercharged

Unread postby Mikey » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:21 pm

Thanks for the lesson, but I know what I'm about. Option one is a turbo charger, yes driven by the exhaust . Option two is a belt driven supercharger driven off the rear gear case. Both are avail for the io550 continental.
The supercharger it seems has some better advantages, it's made by Forced Air Tech and is an STC for the cessna 182 and field approval for the cessna 206. I'm really looking for anyone with the FAT unit fitted and how they find it.

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Re: IO550 turbo or supercharged

Unread postby RKittine » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:24 pm

Interesting. A Supercharger should give instant boost. I did not know they made one for the 550.

Post what you find out. Sure it will interest many.

I found their web site.

http://www.forcedaeromotive.com/product.htm

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Re: IO550 turbo or supercharged

Unread postby KlausNW » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:05 pm

Thanks for the introducing the Forced Aeromotive Technologies Supercharger to our forum.

It's just a normalizer so there is no reason to believe it would introduce any extra wear on the engine. Turbocharger normilizers even with intercoolers hold a lot of heat in the cowling and drys gaskets out and can create hot spots. I think the supercharger would be a worthwhile set-up, if you don't like it take it off. That's usually more difficult to do with turbochargers.
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Re: IO550 turbo or supercharged

Unread postby Mikey » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:18 pm

Hi.
Yer I want a bit better altitude performance. And if I read and believe the website then the supercharger should be a better option. I only know of that 206 shown on their website that has it. It's operating on floats in Africa on missionary work.
I'll update when I find out more.
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Re: IO550 turbo or supercharged

Unread postby Mikey » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:22 pm

And here are the people who turbo the 550 in a cessna 210. I'm talking with them and they have a 550 turbo fitted in a cessna 206 and they should have STC done in a couple of months.

http://www.vitatoeaviation.com/category/cessna206_207/

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Re: IO550 turbo or supercharged

Unread postby gear » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:29 pm

Mikey - you and i seem to have gone down similar paths researching the same toys, er "mandatory equipment" :beer:

I have the Airplains IO-550D in my 182. Don't know all the differences between that and the N, but i understand the N is tuned induction and has better performance. I've had mine ported / polished and reportedly is putting out about 330 HP. I've been extremely happy with mine and would do it again in a heartbeat. I've also had a 400 lb upgross done and at full gross it doesn't even think about lifting off the water. I do know float guys that have their 520's replaced with 550's on their 206's, and they rave about the improvements. Even thought its technically the same HP, there is a noticeable difference. Something to do with torque?? I'm not sure.

I also have looked into the FAT supercharger in some detail. There are not a lot of guys that have done it so not too much info out there - i've talked with a few via email - i've heard nothing bad about the set up other than the engine compartment gets a little crammed. Don't know what it does to the engine, but my believe is it doesn't hurt it as long as you don't overboost while down low. I don't know how they control that.

I was going to put it on my Texas Skyways 0-520 but then i went with the IO550 instead. I also understand that it is available for the 550 - i just don't know which engine version - i do believe it is the D. It provides sea level pressure up to about 7000 feet or so. My research led me to believe that you lost about 3% HP spinning the whole assembly down low when you weren't using it. $20K for the kit - can't remember if that is installed. When you compare the two, my belief was that the turbo normalizing gave you better performance way up high (into the flight levels).

I'm also in the process of looking at purchasing a P210 for my travel outside the float world. I've spent some time talking to Larry Vitatoe and his turbo normalized IO550. I'd love that conversation in a 210 - just the $120K US price tag really hurst when I'm multiplying everything by 1.35 to convert to canadian $$.

RAM Aircraft also has a turbo normalized 550 approved as well - you can check out their website to see if they have an option for you. My initial understanding was that it was quite a bit cheaper than Larry's option, but i must admit i haven't had time to stay up to speed with that lately. They are coming out with approved aircraft regularly for this, so if you don't see your bird on there, call them - it may be close.

Hopefully some of my garbledegook helps.

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Re: IO550 turbo or supercharged

Unread postby Mikey » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:48 am

Hi.
Just the sort of info I'm looking for.
You say with a 400lb increase your plane won't even look at getting off the water? Do you mean that or do you mean it's no problem?
I was hoping at sea level ( where I'll be most of the time) -and salt water I might be able to do 3750 in my 206 - but I'll wait and see.
I'll check out the RAM people too.
Thanks
Mike
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Re: IO550 turbo or supercharged

Unread postby gear » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:58 am

Sorry - what i mean is that is doesn't hesitate when its time to get off the water. At full gross (1200 lbs useful / 3350 gross), I'm on step pretty quick, off the water, and in a 1500 fpm climb if i want. I don't think 3750 lbs would be too difficult. I could do it without issue (not that i've ever tried,.. :? ) I'f im not mistaken, when Seaplanes west was testing this, they tested at 4000 lbs or something like that and it still passed the climb test (>100 fpm at standard temps)
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