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Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:38 pm
by KlausNW
Topic link: ... ts-part-2/

I truly appreciate your willingness to point out so many aviation issues. There's at least a dozen topics between the two op-eds that are great discussion. I hope you join in here where we can go back and forth in this virtual bar room in the back of the hangar.
:cheers: :beer: :cheers: :beer: We have old WWII music playing and nearly 200 years of Aviation experience participating in great conversation.

I would love to converse on the site but it has so many restrictions that my simple old computer can't post there.

Just to break the ice; Mike Busch has very little influence with any of the owners I know. Sometimes they will bring a SAVVY article to my attention just for a good laugh. Nothing better then writing a one-size-fits-all commentary.

Many owners fly less then 50 hours each year. How much do they really want to spend on extras? One of these days I'm going to be their age and hope to find a mechanic that will let me take them to launch and discuss the old birds maintenance. Sometimes the mechanic can help me justify a $10,000 annual but, they got to give me a good sales pitch.

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:02 pm
by jjbaker

Dave has been a member here for many years.
I've forwarded this on to him via our Editors Whatsapp Group.... which you would technically belong to, if you could bring yourself to answer your emails...



Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:32 pm
by KlausNW
I'm working on an article. Discussing it first with you, Bob, Keith and Glenn helps me figure out what catches the readers attention.

The internet has so many blogs that are read by three people and never get a reply. Even worse, the trolls just trying to get someone to throw their computer across the room. We may not have many participating on but those who do have something relevant to say.

Social media sites are not focused on anything, the old forum is one topic at a time. My brain cell just can't keep up with my fiends dog's rash and 'evil Trump' comments every 33.6 seconds.

My third cousin on my farther's side 'dog rash' picture got 5572 "likes"

:rain: :rain:

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:58 pm
by Rajay
Where's the "Like" button, Jason? Yeah, I know. We've discussed that here before - and the fact that this is NOT intended to be anything at all like FB.

So, Klaus! I'm here. And as far as "breaking the ice" is concerned, I kinda' feel like I took a hammer to it already.

FYI: a lot of my "Bully Pulpit" article was taken directly from a Letter to the Editor that I wrote to AOPA Pilot magazine after Mike Busch's stupid article about advising the Cirrus guy in Iceland to merrily go on his way - out over the North Atlantic with a faulty electrical system.

First of all, they said it was too long. Secondly, they defended Mr. Busch with the claim that "our readers respond favorably to his articles." (I am reminded of the line from "The American President" where he says "they don't drink the water because they're thirsty. They drink it because they don't know the difference.")

I think I already have a good idea about what Jason thinks about most if not all of the various "Alphabet Soup" organizations....

And I guess Jason and I both buried the lead. I am not "Batman" but I am "Rajay" here... and a few other places too.

Also, I guess I just haven't been nearly as active on the forum since Jason "hired" me away to the magazine. During the same time frame, I have also been more active on FB (dave.marion.7543) than any of the various warbird, seaplane, bush pilot, and other aviation forums of which I am a member.

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:24 pm
by Rajay
ALSO... while I find it heartening to hear someone else have a similar perspective on Mike Busch, I have to tell you that - at a previous job - I had 3 different Cirrus customers. 1 ea. SR-20 and 2 ea. SR-22 aircraft. Both SR-22 aircraft and owners were Savvy clients - and what a PITA that was! I know that is a very small polling sample, but I found it disturbingly skewed toward Savvy as opposed to away from them. It's difficult to know how truly pervasive (or not) they are nationwide. Of course, to hear Mike Busch tell it, they are ubiquitous! :Preaching:

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:02 pm
by KlausNW
I didn't know who "Rajay" was, I've always appreciated your input, good to have a name to go with the turbocharger.

I don't have a personal experience with the SAVVY maintenance guy but the couple articles I read where bland. He couldn't give any reasonable advise. Maybe the articles were written after your comments. Does he even write articles anymore? where do you find them?

Found his website and watched the video. I had know idea he's the most recognized aircraft mechanic... wow!

I read AvWeb everyday but never see his articles. Is there a special page dedicated to his opinions? I can't find it.

Commercial aviation requires preventive maintenance practices, if ol' Mike would practice his SAVVY game on a plane with paying passengers he would be back to making punch cards for his old IBM computer. I'm understanding your concerns.

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:32 pm
by Rajay
He seems now to write a semi-regular maintenance column in AOPA Pilot magazine. Of course, as a co-founder, he has unlimited access to and through AvWeb...

If you ever find a copy of his exhaustive self-bio, it includes stints as a counselor and technical specialist for groups like Cessna Pilots Association, Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association, and others like that too...

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:39 pm
by Rajay

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:08 pm
by KlausNW
I just read four of his articles. Enough time wasted.

Well, I only know a couple owners who read his articles. I'll just keep reading the manufacturers service information and waste the owners money. Fortunately Mike is writing an engine maintenance book so I can throw out all those old worn out manuals. What in the world does Lycoming and Continental know about those engines anyway, their just trying to rip us off.

The reason I started this thread had little to do with the "expert". You mention spending time with the Pilots.

Many years ago I worked in a shop that had "Pilot Keep Out" signs. The mechanics didn't want the pilots around and talk down to them. I chose a different route. I couldn't figure out how creating a divide was productive. The Pilots and Owners that I do maintenance for are my friends and we do have social outings. I'm involved in the local pilot organizations and the regional online groups. The Air-Taxi and FBO's I work for have regular bar-b-ques and sponsor airport events. Not only do these events and outings serve as good advertising, more important breaks down the divide.

I discovered that you can't wait around for someone else to put on activities. Mechanics are the people who spend the most time at an airport and they have the best opportunity to generate airport gatherings. Many of the airport administrators don't like folks at 'their' airport, you just have to work even harder with them to get past their phobias. Just trying to say, schools don't teach us how important our Aviation relationships are. Write the time spent off as advertising if it helps, make social events happen.

I understand this is all unsolicited advise, just think the "Aviation Family" needs to spend more time together.

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:08 am
by RKittine
Klaus, you are a licensed pilot though, correct? Doesn't that help?

I agree totally about the need for friendship and socializing within the flying fraternity, no matter what you fly or how you are a part of it. The local airports that I now base at (East Hampton and Warwick) have no physical amenities that lead to interaction between even pilots. All the shops at East Hampton as spread out and there isn't one at Warwick. There is a pilots association at East Hampton and a few mechanics are members, but they are the ones that are also licensed pilots. There are no restaurants at either airport either. Over the years, the restaurants at the airports that I was involved with created a draw for all at the airport, but also as a way to get other pilots to Drop In and locals to come to eat and watch planes land and take off, especially the kids, who then might at least end up taking a more active role in adding to the Pilot/Mechanic/Airport Personel group.

I flew out of Ramapo Valley Airport from 1963 until it closed in 1986. We had a WWII qounset hut restaurant with a bar, on the field. Pilots, Instructors, Mechanics, the girls in the office and locals all met there for lunch, drinks and snacks after the headsets where hung up for the day (though in the beginning now one was wearing headsets.

Weekends, bad weather days, didn't matter, people still went to the place to chat, exchange flying stories, learn and contribute and just support aviation.

At least in my neck of the woods that has eroded.

Island Bob's and other places that Glenn frequent is different, and at least on the weekends I think from Glenn's travel logs, all is alive and well, though he will have to comment on the non-flying mechanic side of it but there are no mechanics based at Island Bob's.

East Hampton does have a Pilots Association and an Angel Flight Group, but they only get together for scheduled meetings or events.

Guess I need to find a new base of operations. Have been considering moving to Orange County Airport and giving up the two grass runways we have at Warwick, but the restaurant closed this past month. Maybe I should buy it and sling burgers in retirement.

RayJay, where in the Chapel Hill area is there a good aviation hang out. As you know, I am there quite a bit to visit my daughter, grand daughter and son in law.


Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:37 pm
by Rajay
RKittine wrote:Rajay, where in the Chapel Hill area is there a good aviation hang out. As you know, I am there quite a bit to visit my daughter, grand daughter and son in law.


There's not one as far as I know. Except maybe my house! I have a lot of Goose photos on the walls of my study.

The only at least semi-socially based establishment that I can think of actually ON any airport anywhere near here is the Pic' 'N Pig BBQ restaurant down at Carthage, just north of the Moore Co. airport. Technically it's a private strip - with the BBQ restaurant right next to the taxiway and aircraft parking. And most important, a published "open invitation" to all comers. Closest thing to a $100 hamburger in Central NC - and probably better than the average burger too.

Don't know if they still do it, but the Wings of Carolina (formerly Chapel Hill) Flying Club that is now based at Sanford / Raleigh Executive Jetport used to have a monthly open house / cookout to which all were welcome. I think I heard not so long ago that they don't do it so much any more.

Hence some of my frustration!

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:05 pm
by RKittine
Thanks RJ,

At Warwick, we do have a Tenant Appreciation Cookout and Party once a year and the woman's pilots association does a fly in free breakfast in September. For 5 years I hosted a fly-in once a year, but that is only three days in total out of 365. Maybe I can get a local Roach Coach to come every Saturday and Sunday and serve lunch to those who want something. We do have a building at Warwick where people could meet if we got the word out. I will have to see if we could try that.


Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:35 pm
by KlausNW
Washington state has the "Washington Pilot Association" (WPA) and "Washington Seaplane Pilot Association" (WSPA) both are independent from other national alphabet groups.

We have 'Chapters' of the WPA throughout the state and the chapter I belong to meets each third Tuesday of the month. We have so many incredibly good restaurants in Wenatchee, WA area that the meetings are held at a different locally owned place each month with few repeats per year. The state of Washington and Alaska passed laws requiring any business that serves hard liqueur must serve food. From the patron standpoint that's got to be the best law past ever. Fast food joints struggle to compete. The 'Bar/Restaurants' serve breakfast, lunch and dinner in very comfortable environments. Most of these establishments are micro-brews so it just puts the icing on the cake. Last Tuesday we met at "The Rock Bar & Grill" They had a 5.99 1/3 lbs. cheeseburger, fries special and happy hour beer prices. We couldn't have a hangar bar-b-que for much less.

It's been fun, Pilots bring their friends, spouse and kids. The folks group up for an hour or so then we have the president of the chapter fill everyone in on what's going on and events coming up. Usually folks begin to leave after that and half stay behind to enjoy a little more 'plane talk'.

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:37 am
by jjbaker
KlausNW wrote:Washington state has the "Washington Pilot Association" (WPA) and "Washington Seaplane Pilot Association" (WSPA) both are independent from other national alphabet groups.

Hope this stays on topic and we can hammer out if and how to get communication between A&P's and Pilots improved... best while doing something for the "community" we all miss so badly. Still a correction (everything is my own subjective perspective) as to what the various associations truly accomplish by being an exclusive, larger than life construct of wishful thinking...

I have never been a member of, or heard a single peep from WPA, but used to be a believing supporter of WSPA. With Bruce Hinds departure the course and tone of WSPA changed, communication (outside of SPA party line) ceased almost instantly and these days WSPA's outside communication matches that of SPA in all regards. I was not able to achieve the (financial or social) status required, to be spoken to. Same happened with C-SPA. One CSPA member still supports this forum, other than that, there hasn't been a single peep. Both groups began promoting SPA memberships, some sort of codeshare agreement was entered and that was literally the end of the story.

Used to be a member of both, promoted both of them heavily here on my forum and elsewhere. To verify the thesis, Chris Buckner reached out to WSPA. Communication on any level (newsletters, events, advocacy related content, guest editorials) was made dependent on Chris crawling to the cross and explaining "our motives" with to a larger than life Austin Watson. Instead of being allowed to report on recent advocacy successes or challenges, we were graciously allowed to promote a "Seaplane Ground School", upon which all communication that was not initiated by us stopped, instantly.


Chris had reached out after an advocacy issue had been handled in the newsletter. I'm going to ask Chris to share his impressions here, I wonder how often he tried to communicate with them, after I gave up. Don't think he won't respond if you write him directly via - he remained open and approachable throughout and took none of my being fed up into his own thinking.

If this wasn't the truth, you can bet that I would still be the most geographically distant, but most supportive member of this organization, instead both memberships expired. I can't possibly join all the associations there are, but WSPA and CSPA used to be close to my heart! I would have LOVED to promo both of them on (which does not exist to any of those named) but it just wasn't allowed to happen. Meanwhile, when I bring this crap up and point peoples nose towards the sorry truth, I am told I am paranoid and unable to let go of the past...

Being independent from SPA is nearly impossible these days, SPA flatout ignores everything coming from us here, at the magazine or in personal contact. Those groups or associations who do not fold instantly to going doctrine and agenda, will be damned for all eternity. Critique is severely unwelcome, discourse or discussion unwanted. Questions? Nope! Pay up, shut up. Done.

Very important to point out that Chris Buckner isn't this well known figure in the seaplane industry, nobody has declared him an SPA enemy and none of the cronies ever met him. There isn't a single valid reason not to talk with him, certainly he's open minded, always builds his own opinion and he's been a powerhouse of fresh and different ideas. I just had kind of an emergency and between Chris and Dave could walk away from SPM and not worry a minute about this website or daily content being published.

He reached out fresh to all of them, without bias, providing a unique opportunity to use the resources and reach we have to offer. I predicted to the T what would happen, but he tried nevertheless. The very very same happened several years ago when the King of SPA traveled to Australia and spoke upon the followers in the Australian SPA. Previously established YEARS of healthy contact and exchange ended within weeks of this visit. All coincidence, I am sure...


Chris was met with paranoia and treated like a little schoolboy. Community and aviation family knows no such behavior, let me assure you!

Dave is a member of SPA and reached out on several topics he can tell about, if he wishes. Imagine what this forum could be, if just 3 or four more chimed in and typed more than a line.

Now tell me one instance where I refused to answer one of my members questions or input, due to that person also being a member of SPA?

I'm afraid that associations largely represent status quo - and as long as enough money comes in to fund fancy events, none of it can or will change.
We don't need party line lemmings who vote by proxy and never worry a single second about tomorrow. Most are, and do. Sad fact.

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:08 am
by RKittine
My only point was that sometimes having the venue for informal meetings of like minded people, regardless of what license they held, can be a positive way to advance a positive agenda.

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:40 am
by chrisbuck243
To kind of answer/add on to what Jason said, I have reached out to both WSPA and to SPA about connecting or even just publishing events/information for them through Seaplane Magazine. Not looking for sponsorship/advertising/or free handouts, just trying to connect to share their information with our readers to help spread the word about seaplane events.

I was definitely not greeted with the same enthusiasm as most people who are being offered what is essentially free advertising. With both, even after repetitive emails, the closest thing I could get to cooperation was an email saying "you can call me to talk about why you are doing this." With SPA I did try to initiate those calls, but because of busy schedules and the time difference from Germany the conversation never happened. With Austin Watson from WSPA, I have to admit I did give up pretty quickly because I saw it was going the same place.

I am not a member of either SPA or WSPA, but have recently been considering joining. While it's not like I've got a suitcase full of extra money laying around to donate to these organizations but I do feel that being a member of them would be helpful in both terms of staying connected and for building and maintaining relationships in the seaplane community. Will joining up with these groups, as well as efforts such as others are already making to bring pilots, A&Ps, and airports all together make a difference? Who knows? But as The Doctor once said, "I know that one man can change the course of history. Right idea in the right place at the right time is all it takes. I’ve got to believe it’s possible." The more people we can get together working towards the goal the better in my opinion.

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:29 am
by RKittine
I have been an SPA member for years and don't mind paying the membership fee to get the magazine etc. I am not active on their inactive web site, but do check it. I do not get on their facebook account at all. With the track record JJ has with the SPA, I am not sure it makes all that much sense to both. Glad you guys are passionate about seaplane flying, but we can not even get much more than a dozen contributors here.


Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:23 pm
by KlausNW
I meant to write a reply a couple days ago but, have to make a little money every so often.

My opinion about SPA is negative so I won't go any further, you guys are covering it.

The smaller local groups like WSPA and WPA I defend. We are not looking for national or inter-national recognition. We have small budgets for local events and gatherings. Most of the members I deal with each month won't even participate in the most innocent internet online conversation (no facebook account). They just don't like attention. They know that whatever they type can be read around the world. I understand and respect their wishes.

My idea of pointing out these local, state or regional size groups is not to join them but create your own. Use these existing organizations as models. If you want to do a magazine story on one, ask an officer of the group what it takes to start a group in your state? Ask what's working and what isn't?

These groups are hanging on a thread because of the shortage of new Pilots or people that even want to be Pilots. I'm in the process of experimenting with the "non-TSA" Aviation career promotion idea that we have discussed. ( viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4732 ) I want to raise money at the local events for advertising in the local media. Try to catch the "Potential Pilot's" interest just enough that they show up to one meeting. If I can get someone to show up and meet the local Pilots. Many of these Pilots have made their career in Aviation without leaving this airport as a base. I have so many retiring Pilots as examples; "If you want to fly, somebody wants to pay you to do it".

I know me personally, never wanted to work for the airlines and "See The World". I just wanted to come home to my own bed at least 75 to 80 percent of the time. Many of the Pilots I work with and know one way or another entered Aviation with the idea of doing one thing and ended up doing another, sometimes another and another.

Just like fishing, you have to put out good bait. Once the fish nibbles, set the hook and reel 'em in.

So, I'm trying a new bait:
Fire Fighting
Sight Seeing
Aerial Mapping
Crop Dusting
Medical Support (MedeVac)
Heli Sling-Load
Banner Towing
Sky Diving
Glider Towing
Test Pilot
Law Enforcement
Wildlife Surveillance
Search & Rescue
Geological Survey
Pipeline Patrol
Relocate / Ferry
Hurricane / Weather
Air Ship / Blimp
Hot Air Balloon

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:45 pm
by jjbaker
Radio Controlled Aircraft

(both great ways to get kids involved)

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:43 am
by RKittine
Klaus, I agree with you. Most of the national associations I belong to are because I have to or because I want their magazine. Like the NSSA, I have to belong to shoot registered skeet, the IBS of Benchrest Shooting etc., but it is not the National Organization that is getting things done locally, it is the locals. A bunch of guys at Island Bob's seems to prove more beneficial for that group than any national association.

Getting kids interested is a problem and I have previously stated the issues we have had with the EAA Young Eagles Programs that I participate in multiple times a year. Even radio controlled aircraft has been pretty much surpassed by inexpensive, easy to fly drones. I got my Drone certification as soon as they were available so I could use mine for commercial purposes and now have two students going for the drone license. It is interesting how much they need to learn as neither of them fly other than shooting aerial photos with their drones, nor to they have any interest in aviation other than how the drones make them money. Both of them shot from my plane in past years before the drone explosion, but no interest. One actually kept getting sick, which I understand when you are looking through a camera lense the majority of the flight.

Our local pilots association had it's regular monthly meeting the other night and about the only thing on the agenda was the issues that the East Hampton Airport has. 25 miles away Lunker and Spedaro ariports (literally right next to each other - with counter traffic patters) have shut down and no one seems to care. There you could buy a hanger for a single for about $5,000 or one to hold 3 planes for $12,000 as they were both nearly abandoned, with only about 15 total planes there. The owner of the one died and the kids are now making more money using the place as a storage for boats, RVs etc. and the other one, now one knows though you can still take off and land there, just not stay. No ones seems to care. Mattituck, the location of the famous Mattituck Overhaul has been a waste land since Continental shut it down and moved it to Atlanta, the Montauk Airport is for sale as the property will bring much more money ($40 plus million) so that resort condos can be built and the list goes on. None of that was on our meeting agenda. All the local pilots want the local airport to work for them and lose site of the further out problems.

JJ I am glad the magazine is doing well, but take a look at the number of registered people here, then number that are paying members and the number that take the time to interact and post, whether you agree or not. We do not even generate enough interest no less newbies that have not become interested.

Now do an article about a rifle scabbard for your plane or mounting guns on it and see what happens. I shoot .22 Rim Fire Bench Rest. I just got off the RimFireCentral forum site. That is a subset of gun owners and there are 147,XXX members, over 5 million posts and when I was on there were 1002 people on the site. Over 40% contribute to that site. In a 24 hours period you can expect at least 15 pages of posts, with 25 threads per page. Most of the time once you open a post that has been active it will be to find that you are 5 or more posts behind for that thread, just that day. There are no political posts or Classified as part oif that as they are handled separately by the site.

Bet that there are even more on Xbox and other Gaming sites that the kids are more interested in.


Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:39 am
by jjbaker
Bob, one of the issues of forums, particularly niche forums (which do not try to speak to a very wide audience) are that 65-75% of people are now on smart devices and constantly bombarded with shit. I had new registrations disabled for nearly a year due to constant (constant!) hacking attempts. Nowadays this software is so weak and easy to kill, its completely senseless to try and keep it safe. Remember, everything I know and do is self taught. If I need help, it costs money. A good developer sets me back $100/ hour.

A forum is in essence the slow and hard to read version of Facebook, which is a pool of 30% or more fake users, trolls and political shit, mixed with 30% hidden advertising or self promoting pricks with an outrageous opinion. Forums and blogs experience very limited user interaction on their particular websites, because the one and often only thing connecting people online is Facebook. It takes time to respond and with the constant overload of information, people are so unfocused that most of the discussions go under as white noise. Its just too damn much!

Even seaplane focused Facebook groups (equal number of members as us!) have very very very limited participation.

New Realities Online

Seriously, we have aviation companies uploading their print adverts to Facebook to get any feedback on them, at all. Still, a large number of companies consider print advertising valid. More and more are looking into Online, Influence Marketing, Social Media and Events, some are moving away from display ads entirely. Now, aviation marketing and sales is a completely different animal from any other industry and many mistakes are being made by those marketing agencies and company marketing directors. But, I trust that the market will self- correct.

As you know, I make my money with media sales, ad sales and aviation media consulting these days, including corporate Facebook management.

I just turned down a aviation publishing house (print) which is in desperate need for a media and ad sales professional to sell print advertising in a magazine that comes out 4 times per year. The former colleague who did the job prior to them approaching me, is the former advertising sales manager for a pretty successful and well funded monthly aviation magazine here in Germany, just like I was before I moved into navigation marketing and sales. In 7 months, he sold not a SINGLE ad into this magazine, which has (drumroll) 5000 subscribers!

Like me, he departed the print publishing business and is now on his own. He's 60 and just now stepping into the online world, where I have spent the better part of my life and am still behind the curve. It costs significant dollars and effort to bring a website that is mobile ready, displays advertising nicely, has nice forms and features and integrates halfway well with social media.

Its literally impossible to keep up with the constant algorithm changes, reach limitations and various other challenges which impact marketing professionals (my clients, actually) on a daily basis. I spend an average of half an hour per day on SEO optimization and keeping my quota of never depending on Facebook for readers. In two years we have managed to get high unique visitor counts in 55 countries and growth and expansion have only started. Not two months after offering the first advertising spots we have secured two big sponsors who don't limit us in what we can do, but want to see the site succeed.

I know that other forum owners had to do several things to stay around and both of the ones I read at all are completely censored, diversified away from their own original an genuine purpose and very very protective of their supporter and advertiser dollars. If you say the wrong thing on one of those sites, your ass is out the door before you know it, for the risk of a advertiser jumping ship. The mighty dollar rules. For two of these ballerinas every single post on another forum is already an insult. Make no mistake about it, we're all in aviation and still, forum owners actually fight each other for the risk of loosing a few dollars.

I monitor our audience here and know what number of people read, but we have to see that all of these opinions and blustery statements are really worthless when it comes to attracting new blood. Young people are still very short on attention (you have an average of 2.5 seconds on Facebook to catch the followers attention) and we are fighting against net neutrality issues, filtering, delayed reach and throttled reach, every single day.

With we did hit a nerve. People DO want the up to date information. Companies want to see their news out in front of readers in less than 3 months and they certainly work with people like me (despite my alleged "past with the SPA") because they realize that these cronies are stuck in 1980 an bogged down by politics, greed and lust for power and my team and effort is genuine. Of course there are people out there who look down on us with a sarcastic smile and wonder how long we can keep it open, but I actually enjoy having raised this site to what it has become. I keep open because it is basically what allowed me to learn what I make my living with today. Its the mother-ship to

Chris and I had to make some tough decisions along the way and one of them was to diversify. The U.S. & Canadian companies do not have the meat on the bones to keep a site like this filled with valid and relevant information, nor can they keep us properly funded. The reader is never ever going to pay a single dime for anything they read on our page. Where does a 45 year old go to learn about seaplane flying? Google! Heck, some float manufacturers wouldn't respond to an email from us if we ordered a fleet of floats in our initial email.

There are TONS and TONS of things happening all over this planet, in Europe the water flying world is entering a renaissance and comeback period we haven't seen since World War II and there are movements and contacts behind the front page of that would make peoples ears ring. It takes time to develop these contacts and it takes time for word to spread if you do everything on a shoestring budget. Contrary to your favorite friends in FL, we don't have a $45000 travel budget and writing a big 0 into a clumped tax return while shoveling foundation millions around isn't an option. Neither can we operate on a net advertising loss, like the SPA is doing.

We consciously decided NOT to offer advertising until the first two years had passed. Our readers and guest editors have more influence on the course of than anyone else. The 900+ completely ORGANIC likes on Facebook are not purchased or the result of political shoulder rubbing, that is our readers spreading the word. We are and remain open for guest editorials (even those saying that Jason Baker is the declared enemy of the state) but also receive more and more news. I promise, if anyone wants to submit a guest editorial, saying that our website is shit and should be shut down instantly, I will personally put them on their little soapbox to sing their sad song. I've got nothing to hide and still sleep like a baby.

In short: The positive feedback we get from our readers and now our first sponsors FAR exceeds the negative voices, fear and paranoia from the Floridians. You really have to measure your success by how many of the big turf owners and players out there try to make you disappear and ignore you.

Steven McCaughey could send me a email tomorrow morning and write: "Jason Baker, you are the biggest asshole I have ever met and I regret the day I met you! - but here is a guest editorial for your shitty website and for your idiot readers! They should all join the SPA today!" I would bring the article. After all, I am able to look beyond the ego and immature behavior of people and keep the big picture in mind. I am just the fucking messenger, no more and no less and how popular or unpopular I am with a bunch of backwards thinking cowboys is completely irrelevant to me.

We are and have always been stronger if we communicated and worked hand in hand.

Lets not make peoples lack of intellect and ability to do the same be your, my or this forums fault. We tried. It didn't work.

Our way forward is to work and expand on ideas like that from Klaus (even if we think it won't work) and throw the bone out there for people to think. How about a mechanic & pilot BBQ fest at your airport. Are enough people sticking around after flying to sit for a few minutes, or are we now all so damn special that we have to get out of the airplane, walk by 12 other pilots who all stare into their F'ing cellphone and then jump into our cars to drive off. Look around. We have children who panic and go into severe shock when you say hello to them. If its not on the screen, its not real.

Lets do a test: Get five pilots and five mechanics together for a meet and greet on a Sunday after their flights. Put them all on the table and let them "talk". The second one of them pulls out his cellphone ask him/ her to explain why that damn Facebook notification was so important that he/ she couldn't wait to see it. Then ask again why aviation is dying a slow and painful death. Everything under the sun is more important than sitting around and just... chatting. That's where aviation started. People sitting around in circles, wondering if there was a damn way to fly. Technology and Facebook will not help us, it will hurt us. Dependency and learned helplessness are terrible things.

Its what we do here. We get together (the few of us who are left) and chat.


Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:46 am
by RKittine
I am always willing and happy to try new things. Unfortunately the only mechanic at Warwick is an unliked asshole, but then he only works on his own planes too.

Maybe at East Hampton or Orange County.

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:39 pm
by KlausNW
Dave your timing on knocking the savvy mechanic couldn't be better. This A.D. proposal is not unrealistic from my experience:
Cessna aircraft wing strut attachments inspection:

These "Aging Aircraft" are falling apart and need deeper more thorough inspections. The construction practices alone build in stresses in critical areas. Not to say anything about the normal operating stresses. Mr. Savvy informs owners that mechanics are just trying to run the bill up each year following a manufactures recommended checklist and "perform unneeded inspections". If mechanics followed the 'savvy way', the wing strut would have broke loose and created a once in a lifetime event.

Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:35 am
by RKittine
I totally agree with what you are saying Klaus. When my old 7CCM had to get ripped down due to a wing strike that the new owner had, it was amazing to see how bad the inside of the wings really were. Just am glad that nothing came apart in the 600 hours that I flew it.


Re: Dave Marion Join Our Conversatiion

Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:50 pm
by Rajay
Bob, I don't suppose that you are in Chapel Hill right now...

I just saw a guy wearing a dark blue SPA windbreaker coming out of a grocery store in Carrboro and drive off in a black Ford pickup. Didn't get a chance to say hello....